Headlight help

[Tedsoldbus]

My headlights suck. RJ was nice enough to look at them using facetime about a year ago. They are the square front lens, old Ford Pickup headlights. Two birthday candles would work better, but I wanted to keep the "old look" and I'm afraid I may have pushed RJ off a bit because I didn't want to change them. I just won't drive at night (I told myself).
Coming home from Nappanee with DTCerrato in my rear view mirror we ran out of day about an hour from the Cablela's we planned to overnight. Only because our walkie talkie set ran out of juice - could I not ask him to come around and lead for the last 20 miles. It was scarey for me.
I'm over it. Ready for halogen, piped sunlight, something mucho better.
I asked RJ offline if I can talk to him again since I got smarter, about my options.
Anyone else is welcome to offer ideas. I can take a picture of the back of my lights if it helps. Those who know headlights (not me) may have a plan, Afraid to have any not bus guy tell me "just do this". We all know buses are different and old ones don't like change.
Thanks
Ted

[luvrbus]

Go with LED don't waste your time on the Cubie Halogen,Van can tell you what to buy for a Prevost to keep from blinding oncoming traffic   

[windtrader]

Are you sure the wiring is all intact and the grounds are solid.
My lights are really bad and I just don't drive at night until I sort it out fully. If grounds are poor then not enough current can flow to power the lights enough.
You might end up with new lights that are dim too if the wiring has issues.

[Van]

I have the 4 bulb set up on mine and same here could'nt see sqwat. I was not to convinced about led till I seen Jerry Chael's set up on his Eagle. The cut off line on these are nice, they light up the road like daytime without blinding traffic. They also have a white and amber led perimeter thaat is also purposed for DRL and turn signal. I haven't look at the 2 bulb system, bout ours on Amazon.

[RJ]

Ted -
Nah, you didn't push me off, the timing just wasn't right!    But now it is, eh?

Don -
I don't remember - do you have the 5" round headlamps, or the gawd-awful 4"x6" rectangular units?  Also, are yours still 24vdc, or has your coach been rewired with MCIs' funky solution to allow the use of 12vdc headlights?

My coach used '89-'91(?) Ford F150/Bronco rectangular plastic lamps that were not much better than a single AA-battery flashlight. I replaced them with the kit from Matthew Valentine, a fellow Prevost owner that runs a fabrication company. It's an extremely well-engineered kit that when installed, is equal to or better than Prevost quality. He's not on this forum, but can be found on Facebook's Prevost pages. He's also interested in developing adaptations for other makes/models - I can put you in touch with him if you're interested.

The kit uses JW Speaker LED headlights (I opted for the heated versions) which are made in WI, and, after doing some research, at the time they were the only ones that were DOT compliant, unlike the majority of less-expensive imported lamps. Like Van said, the difference is astounding (especially once you get them adjusted properly), it's almost like driving in daylight on low beams alone!

Here's a link to one of their 5" round lamps - note that they operate on 12-24vdc, too! https://www.jwspeaker.com/products/led-headlights-model-8630-evolution/

And here's a link to their 4"x6" rectangular lights:
https://www.jwspeaker.com/products/heated-4x6-led-headlights-model-8800-evolution-2/

These aren't cheap, but what price SAFETY??

FWIW & HTH. . . 

RJ

[Busted Knuckle]

Ted I may have been wrong in my reply to you on BGM!
It may have been RJ I was thinking of, not Bob Glines.
For some reason I still think I remember Bob having found a solution for his old Prevost, but I could be wrong it might have been RJ and I just got confused. (seems to happen a lot lately, shoot I can't remember what I had for lunch today! .... OH wait it's only 8:30 in the morning I haven't had lunch yet. Now what was I talking about?...... OH yeah uh..... hmmm...... OH crap I think I'm getting Bidenidis!)
  BK 

[windtrader]

Don -
I don't remember - do you have the 5" round headlamps, or the gawd-awful 4"x6" rectangular units?  Also, are yours still 24vdc, or has your coach been rewired with MCIs' funky solution to allow the use of 12vdc headlights?

My coach used '89-'91(?) Ford F150/Bronco rectangular plastic lamps that were not much better than a single AA-battery flashlight. I replaced them with the kit from Matthew Valentine, a fellow Prevost owner that runs a fabrication company. It's an extremely well-engineered kit that when installed, is equal to or better than Prevost quality. He's not on this forum, but can be found on Facebook's Prevost pages. He's also interested in developing adaptations for other makes/models - I can put you in touch with him if you're interested.

The kit uses JW Speaker LED headlights (I opted for the heated versions) which are made in WI, and, after doing some research, at the time they were the only ones that were DOT compliant, unlike the majority of less-expensive imported lamps. Like Van said, the difference is astounding (especially once you get them adjusted properly), it's almost like driving in daylight on low beams alone!

Here's a link to one of their 5" round lamps - note that they operate on 12-24vdc, too! https://www.jwspeaker.com/products/led-headlights-model-8630-evolution/


FWIW & HTH. . . 

RJ

Yes, I go the dual round ones and it does have the 24 to 12 conversion. This thread is valuable to me as it indicates the lighting is a fairly common issue.
Even though the 12v conversion may be a bit quirky, is it poor enough to put back to 24 or mod it to work better at 12v? I am definately going to look into some LED if they work like the new ones are cars which are blindingly amazing and very focused.

[Tedsoldbus]

Calm down BK.
You are just undercaffeinated. Sip slowly. Remember to breath. Have another cup. You are one of my bus hero's. Worry not.
I called a lifeline last week (Bob Glines) and he talked me through taking out my worn out ignition switch so I wouldn't electrocute myself. RJ is the lights guy from what I know about him. I just came home from the barn to get my 35 mil to take pictures of the lights, wires etc for the NASA lights guy (RJ) and forgot the camera is still in the bus from taking it to the meet. (denial is the first sign of needing memory care)
I need to use that camera so RJ doesn't have to turn his laptop sideways to look at the pictures.
Be back with you gents in a while, if I remember how to get back to the bus barn...

(But if Bob solved it on his bus, I am not afraid to bug him again. But with Bob, you must always use caution. He might think I can do more than I can. We are talking about a guy the put 3 slides in his Prevost. By himself!)

[robertglines1]

check voltage to your current head lights at bulb. with engine running should be 13.6V  you will prob find 11.2 to 12 volt. 11.5= 25% supply.  12V= 50% supply.  If you can junkyard and find all glass ford assenblies (maybe F-250) that will help. The plastic ones are crap. Voltage loss come with age in switches etc bad grounds.. with led or xeon there will be new relays to overcome signal from weak sources. Look up replacement headlights from late 70's thru 80's for ford trucks. More detail if needed.   Bob

[luvrbus]

Most LED will work up to 32 volts I have the Halogen bulb type (xeon) on my CC and the converter boxes drive me nuts with problems

[Jim Blackwood]

A couple decades ago I heavily researched headlights and at the time the finest optics even available were an old headlight that was no longer being produced by Marschal, a French company that made headlights for top end sports cars and such, had an image of a cat face in the center of the lens. Those were only available at a ridiculous price when you could even find them but there were a couple of lenses that were pretty comparable in production. I'd have to look at my lenses to see what they are but Bosch comes to mind. It was a round flat face lens but since then they did expand to rounded lenses, the smaller size, and probably even rectangular so good lenses should still be available.

At that time it was all Halogen and bulbs of up to 150watts were available. The cutoff was as sharp as a razor so with proper adjustment they didn't blind the oncoming drivers, causing them to run into you. I ended up with 120/150 watt bulbs and never regretted it. The wiring has to be up to the load.

Today, LED lamps have almost gotten to the point of general acceptability but not quite yet. There are still far too many non-DOT compliant lenses out there and those WILL blind oncoming drivers and you have all experienced that. So don't make the mistake of jumping at a low price before checking certifications. Of course just the certification is a low bar. It's meant to protect others, not so much you.

Here's the issue. Lens development for incandescent and halogen bulbs makes use of a very small and precisely located hot spot and an LED bulb by it's very nature has a much larger emitter, so the output is naturally more diffuse. If you put that in even the best older lamp the light scatter will be unacceptable. Which means that to work properly an LED headlight REQUIRES a serious effort to engineer and produce a lens that focuses the light where it is wanted and not where it isn't. That takes a dedicated devotion to one specific lens style and given modern headlight design it's pretty easy to see that corners have been cut pretty much across the board. Which also means that not enough attention has been devoted to traditional styles and good optics have been slow coming out.

There used to be a site, DanielSternLighting I believe, that posted unbiased reviews of the available lenses and bulbs but about a decade and a half ago one of the big guys made him an offer he couldn't refuse and all that went away. Now he just promotes the one brand so that site is no longer a good guide. But I'll try to get the name and number off my good lenses and post that here. It may be that that company now makes an acceptable LED optic.

Jim

[Tedsoldbus]

pictures

[Tedsoldbus]

Lenses are plastic but I think this bus has lived a life of being inside and they are still clear. They are 10" X 6 1/4 and I wrote down the numbers on the lens, but who cares. I need to change the thing out. Just hope I can find a lens that fits the hole to keep the bus looking the same. I will check what Bob said because I can't believe they sold this thing with this lighting. Two clear plastic bags of lightning bugs taped to the front would be better. The relay that goes to the lights looks tired and I have a new one, but I hate to start changing things that are not broken. I'm not good at electricity as Bob knows from helping me with my ignition switch earlier this week.

Start with new bulbs of the same thing and see if I am surprised? I am not afraid to spend $$ on this. Just not sure how to proceed.  The little I have done around the house has a black and white wire. Bob, RJ and others may look at the picture of the multi color wires and know, but I can't. When RJ looked at this about a year ago, my hope of just snapping a halogen into the existing socket was not seeming like an option.

I guess it is just time for me to learn this. Or maybe just spend 1/2 day driving to Bob's so I don't set my bus on fire. Yeah.....that's it!

[Tedsoldbus]

Hey Bob. Can't test what you said until my new ignition switch comes Friday or so. I guess I'll get back to changing out the toilette. I know how to do that and won't set anything on fire....

[luvrbus]

You test head lamps with the engine running just 1 volt drop in voltage from the alternator will make headlamps dim,the LED it doesn't affect