Headlight help

[dtcerrato]

Do people actually spend that kind of money for headlights? Geeze!

[chessie4905]

Apparently some do, I won't.

[Busted Knuckle]

Do people actually spend that kind of money for headlights? Geeze!

I guess that depends on how bad you want to see, or how good you want to look!
I know I wouldn't! I'd go see one of my Amish friends and get one of the "head lights" they use! (an LED light on an elastic band they wear on their forehead! LOL)
  BK 

[Jim Blackwood]

Just seems nuts to me.

Jim

[richard5933]

Putting proper voltage and solid ground connections did wonders for the headlights on my 4108.

I accomplished the voltage with four 24v to 13.8v converters.

[windtrader]

Those specially made high/low LED lights look nice but now way I'm paying $666, scary number, just for two headlights.
How about just using decent regular ones, then use whatever the hell non-compliant ones for high beams, use really when you need the light and no oncoming?
I'm hoping to check the wiring on the headlights tomorrow. will report back what I find - voltage, resistance, etc.

[Jim Blackwood]

Modern vehicle wiring reliability is truly legendary and of the things that made that possible, the one at the very top of the list is the modern gas sealed connector. It can't corrode if it can't get oxygen and if it can't corrode there is very little to go wrong. Yet by the end of the century that technology had not made it into buses despite having been used in cars for a couple of decades. This in my opinion was a travesty. The second big factor was the introduction of cross-linked insulation which is tougher and has a service life at least ten times that of vinyl insulation. Unfortunately unlike collector cars we are not really in a position to upgrade the bus with an aftermarket replacement electrical wiring harness and that means we are stuck with old technology and corroded connections. One of the best things you can do in a case like this is invest in a bottle of anti-corrosion electrical gel and use it every time you work on anything electrical. There are many products that claim to do the job but buying from an electrical supply house is one way to get something that works as it will be made specifically to mate copper and aluminum conductors together, a union that invites corrosion due to the electrolytic difference in the metals. This type of product chemically counters oxidation and in some cases reverses it. Many are just barriers which while better than nothing are more of a stopgap measure.

Any joint in the wiring can create a voltage drop and any voltage drop will reduce the light output. So you need to know that every single joint from battery post back to battery post is fundamentally sound. One of the best ways to do this is with a direct fused lead from and back to the battery, with an oversized sealed relay inline, using wires that are oversized for the amperage draw. Or you can just measure the voltage drop at the bulb with the lights on and compare that to the voltage at the battery terminals. Anything more than a drop of a tenth of a volt or so at the bulb is cause for concern.

As for those high dollar headlights, that's like cocaine: God's way of telling you that you have too much money.

Jim

[buswarrior]

Jim, I think you said re-wire the headlights with new wiring?

The number of people who pricked wires, in their attempts to troubleshoot electrical was, and in some cases, still is, epic...

It isn't so much the bus's fault as it is the people who were abusing it between then and now.

Check a guys's multimeter... sharpened tips on the leads...

There are some sins that are unforgivable...

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

[richard5933]

Fortunately rewiring a bus for 12v headlights is pretty simple and the wiring lengths are not that long.

If you find a good 24v supply point in the electrical cabinet to the left of the driver, you only have a few feet to go.

My 4108 had four circuits between that panel and each of the four headlight bulbs. GM liked redundancy and I agreed with it, so it stayed. I used four 24v-to-13.8v converters, each rated for twice the necessary current flow. The new wiring only had to go a few feet to supply the converters in the compartment below the driver, and then a note few feet to each headlight. Finding a solid ground connection was just as easy since there was a good one in the electrical compartment.

Once you have proper voltage and solid grounds to each lamp location, you can install whatever type of headlight you prefer and it should be problem free.

[chessie4905]

go to led's that run at 12 to 30 volts to avoid any voltage reducers. remember your current lighting is 20 to 40 years behind technology. even upgrading wiring using original lighting will give improved results, but not outstanding, which leds will.

[chessie4905]

go to led's that run at 12 to 30 volts to avoid any voltage reducers. remember your current lighting is 20 to 40 years behind technology. even upgrading wiring using original lighting will give improved results, but not outstanding, which leds will.

[chessie4905]

here is an example led bulb for hella 4x6 lamps that take this h4 type bulb.
https://www.auxito.com/products/9003-led-bulb-h4-hb2-led-headlight-bulb-9000-lumen

here is hella headlamps 4x6
https://www.auxito.com/products/9003-led-bulb-h4-hb2-led-headlight-bulb-9000-lumen

they come with h4 halogen bulbs which are 12 volt. check for h4 led bulbs rated for 12 to 30 volt from a led bulb outfit. many are available through Amazon, along with hella headlamps. you can peruse the hella site also. their lamps are sized in metric but convert to inches. 164x103mm

[freds]

There's a YouTube channel "Headlight Revolution" that covers converting to LED and HID in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/c/HeadlightRevolution

[Tedsoldbus]

Thanks for all your ideas and suggestions. I hope others learned a few things and there were a few websites shared that may help others.
Sadly today I decided to abort my plan. I had been taking the lights apart on the driver side. I ran into some challenges but was figuring it out. The light assembly from Jim Blackwwods guy (Daniel) looked like it would fit the hole and fit the bill for what I was hoping to do and how I wanted it to look when dome.

Then it hit me. Last night thinking about it. 6 months into having this bus my inverter went out and I took it to East Tenn Luxery Coach. It was nearby, good rep, and they only do Prevost. While there, I thought to myself, why not let THEM change out the passenger headlight bulb that had also gone out.
It took one of his best guys over 2 hours to do that bulb. There was about a pound of foam on the floor and his body was contorted every time I checked on him.
When done, he said "They did not do you any favors spraying 6 inches of foam into an already tight spot. That whole corner is foam. They must have been trying to use up a can...".

So this morning I crawled under the bus with a bright light and looked up. There is about an 8 inch space between the bus firewall and stairs and the headlight assembly. That whole corner....is foam. With wires, wire bundles half in, half out of foam. Leftover tubes which I knew went to the old air wipers. I like a challenge, but not a chocolate mess.

  I had my neighbor look under there after me. He was a Delta hydraulic and sheet metal (skin) mechanic. He said " I wouldn't try to get a light assembly out of that mess. You will cut three wires that go to something else and not know it just trying to get that foam out of there.".
He said I'll be right back. Brought back his polishing kit. We polished the never to be tampered with lens for 10 minutes. Turned on the lights. Mucho better!

So. Not taking out the plastic lenses much as I wanted to. I will put the other one back together. Maybe a new bulb, and think about where I can put augmented lighting. I have two spare 12 V circuits up front so I think I'll do that over trying to claw foam for 3 days out of a very tight spot.
As suggested by some of you: I am polishing what I have. I am looking at additional lighting. Just not sure where. I did learn with my neighbors help to use my fancy new multimeter. As suggested by some of you older very smart guys, I checked my wires and they are good to the existing lights.
.
All in all a good learning experience for me. Especially the part about look at both lights before deciding to change them. and I hope a few of the silent lookers picked up a thing or two.

But that is it for me.

Again, thanks for all the ideas that helped me and may  helped others.

Ted

[Jim Blackwood]

So do you have a new bulb on the passenger's side? Have you stood in front and looked at the tights to see if the driver's side light looks dim? Maybe just replace that bulb and get enough light?

Jim