Hydrogen retro fit and semi retro fit diesel motors

[lvmci]

https://www.nbcnews.com/now/video/is-hydrogen-the-clean-fuel-of-the-future-170969157630

[lvmci]

Toyota Certifies a Drop-In Fuel-Cell Kit for Big Rigs
Rather than R&D their own, truckmakers can swap in a Toyota to meet ZEV requirements with their Class 8 trucks.

BY MARK VAUGHN
  APR 27, 2023
toyota class 8 fuel cell powertrain kitTOYOTA
Toyota has certified a fuel-cell powertrain kit for big Class 8 trucks.
The kits can be used by companies like Kenworth to power 18-wheelers.
No pricing, power, or torque specs were released.
Emissions rules are getting tighter all the time, particularly in California, and the whole transportation industry is reinventing itself to address new government regulations for clean air. The requirements for big Class 8 trucks that haul containers from the ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach to rail cars in East L.A. say the trucks must be zero-emissions—as in no tailpipe pollutants at all.

Almost all truckmakers—including Tesla, Mack, Mercedes-Benz, Volvo, and Freightliner—are addressing this new challenge with electric solutions. But Toyota, way behind on battery-electric powertrains, is going the fuel-cell route.

Thus, Toyota recently celebrated the California Air Resources Board's (CARB) certification of its new heavy-duty fuel cell electric powertrain. The standalone powertrain comes in the form of a relatively compact kit—the "hydrogen-fueled powertrain kit." It includes: hydrogen fuel storage tanks, fuel-cell stacks, batteries, electric motors, and transmission. According to Toyota, the kit "offers a viable alternative to traditional diesel powertrains used in commercial goods transportation as companies look to transition their fleets to zero-emission vehicles."

No power or torque ratings were released and no pricing was mentioned, but the units are meant to fit into existing Class 8 truck architecture.

"Heavy-duty Class 8 commercial truck original equipment manufacturers and operators now have another tool to help them comply with increasingly strict emissions regulations in the State of California," Toyota said.

The Toyota unit was certified by CARB to meet that agency's Zero-Emissions Powertrain Executive Order and may also be eligible for government incentives to help pay for the transformation to cleaner running, such as CARB's Hybrid and Zero-Emission Truck and Bus Voucher Incentive Project (HVIP), the Clean Truck Fund (CTF) introduced last year by the Ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach, as well as certain federal incentives. So while the price of the powertrain wasn't released, whatever the price is can be mitigated by government funds to help truckers make the transition to zero-emissions.
Toyota says it has developed multiple generations of powertrain prototypes during almost six years of development, including a generation of truck named Ocean that "showed some of the greatest examples of how hydrogen-based powertrains with fuel cell stacks could be used in real-world applications such as drayage (short hauls), through a proof-of-concept demonstration at the Port of Los Angeles as part of the Zero-and-Near-Zero Emission Freight Facilities' 'Shore to Store' Project." In that project, Toyota worked with Kenworth to develop trucks using an updated prototype fuel cell electric powertrain and deployed 10 Kenworth T680 Class 8 trucks with it. The 10 trucks served real-world customers via drayage routes, with infrastructure support from Shell, hauling cargo between the Ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach and the L.A. Basin.
The powertrain is ready for commercialization, with production slated to start for customers later this year at Toyota's Kentucky manufacturing plant.

"This newest generation of powertrain reflects key learnings and improvements in things like energy efficiency, package size, and more from extensive real-world testing and development from the company's fuel cell development engineering team," Toyota said. "Fuel cell electric powertrains are advantageous for heavy- and medium-duty transport when compared to other all-electric options, such as battery electric, as they are often lighter to allow for more payload, and they offer more uptime thanks to fueling times that are much closer to conventional diesel powertrains."...
          ‐----------------
The Hydrogen Truck Race is in full swing, and major automakers and technology providers are competing to produce the most reliable and efficient fuel cell electric trucks.
Toyota Motor North America, for example, is expected to deliver zero-emission fuel cell electric powertrain kits produced in Kentucky this year. The kits include hydrogen fuel storage tanks, fuel cell stacks, batteries, electric motors, and transmission, and qualify for California and federal incentives. Toyota has embraced fuel cells over pure battery-electric vehicles due to their energy efficiency and shorter charge time.

[windtrader]

Good update on getting more hydrogen into the real world. will just have to let time tell how far this goes. The example shows how Calif is getting on the bandwagon and is supported by the fixed and short haul requirements. Given the fixed and shorter routes enables refueling stations to be deployed to meet the needs. In the big scheme of things, this is a pebble in the beach but at least moving forward.

[luvrbus]

EV charging can cost, we were in Needles last night and a guy was real upset about the price of charging with the Tesla super charger. I thought Tesla charging was free, I guess not on his 2022 he only had 10,000 miles of free charging.LOL a guy with a $100,000 automobile was really pissed off about the $50.00 fee from LA to Needles,I told him 50 bucks for 325 miles was not that bad to me just look @ the $6.25 gal price of gasoline here
 

[Jim Blackwood]

Anybody who thinks cars will get cheaper to drive is not being very realistic. Either that or they haven't bothered reviewing any historical data. While there may be certain "incentives" overall the cost trends ever upwards. The most economical route is to buy an older high MPG car in good condition, do the preventative maintenance, and drive it for as long as possible. The very idea that you can drop tens of thousands of dollars to achieve a better overall cost per mile traveled is ludicrous at best and sheer idiocy in the most realistic sense. Whether gasoline, diesel, propane, hydrogen, electricity or whatever that formula does not change.

Jim

[freds]

Anybody who thinks cars will get cheaper to drive is not being very realistic. Either that or they haven't bothered reviewing any historical data. While there may be certain "incentives" overall the cost trends ever upwards. The most economical route is to buy an older high MPG car in good condition, do the preventative maintenance, and drive it for as long as possible. The very idea that you can drop tens of thousands of dollars to achieve a better overall cost per mile traveled is ludicrous at best and sheer idiocy in the most realistic sense. Whether gasoline, diesel, propane, hydrogen, electricity or whatever that formula does not change.

Jim

Hear, hear!!!

[luvrbus]

It going to cost ,hard for me to believe people with 700 to $1000.00 + a month car payment for 7 years nowadays. 

[lvmci]

Old cars and trucks are great! But for every day driving with the fluctuations in the price of oil and electricity, for a young family finding a honest and knowledgeable mechanic for a decent price is not easy. Single moms and dads are especially hard on their incomes with car repairs. But we have made remarkable progress on big city air and caustic pollution. Small towns and rural areas have had bigger impacts from water pollution by factories and illegal dumpers.
   But there is no turning back to cars and trucks powered by flat head V8s, even when running at their best, they're spouting pollutants we don't want to breath at a stop light.
   If you haven't had a child with asthma struggling to breath, or a grand parent terrified that her oxygen machine costs $300 to fix, with it taking 3 weeks to get it back,  then your hiding from what's happening to our enviorment.
   There's a place for battery powered vehicles and Hydrogen combustion engines and everything in between. But it will take some time. So the regulators are doing what the public wants, clean air and fresh water. It worked cleaning the air in cities I know of, but of course it will take time. just as it did when we got rid of our horses to move into cars, when we put mufflers at an increase in price, seatbelts, when we put in collapsing steering and side guard door beams, airbags, electronic ignition and fuel injection, roll over protection, cng and propane fuel in fleets to cut pollution. It will take time, but we're improving the lives of all by doing these steps to improve our transportation...

[luvrbus]

LOL we need  to clean up our neighbors to the south of us,the south winds here this time of the year just blows the pollution towards us you can see it coming.They took down the power plant in Laughlin and guess where it went lol right across the border into  Mexico.We can clean up our mess maybe but till other countries clean up we are still going to have pollution mother nature has no boundaries with wind>I don't buy into to a lot of the BS that comes from DC like banning NG ovens, electricity can be out for days or weeks but the flame keeps going to keep you warm and to cook with, if you pay your bill, idiots in DC are ate up with the dumb @$# 

[lvmci]

Hydrogen fuel news
Cummins to invest $1 billion into US networks supporting future hydrogen fuel use
May 1, 2023 1 By JOHN MAX
Cummins Inc. has announced plans to invest over $1 billion in its US engine manufacturing network for a transition into hydrogen fuel. The investment will upgrade facilities supporting "fuel-agnostic" engine platforms that operate on low-carbon fuels, including hydrogen, with the aim of decarbonizing truck and bus fleets in the US.

The company announced that this investment is on top of those recently made in its Minnesota plant.
Cummins Inc. has announced that on top of the recent investments it has already made in its Fridley, Minnesota plant, it will also be investing over $1 billion across its US engine manufacturing network in a plan that will support a transition into hydrogen fuel.


The investments are being made across the network in Indiana, North Carolina and New York.
The $1 billion is intended to provide an upgrade of facilities supporting the first "fuel-agnostic" engine platforms in the industry. These will operate on low-carbon fuels which will begin with natural gas and diesel, but with the intention to transition to hydrogen fuel in the future. In this way, the company says that it will be playing an important role in the decarbonization of the truck and bus fleets throughout the United States...

[windtrader]

I' m sure everyone has noticed the cost of personal automobiles has increased faster than the average person budget. The other disturbing trend is increasingly automobiles are rolling internet connected devices. Look at the "services" now offered via online subscriptions. Everything from emergency notifications, enabling extra features, increasing motor and vehicle performance, etc.

What is happening is between the hollowing out of the middle class, work from home/fewer trips to an office, and pricing beyond the traditional market's limits means less ownership coming soon. In place will be increased Uber type autonomyous service hailed to your door when you need a ride. Much like those living in NYC for example, they don't own a personal car. That will become far more normal.

That said, some people have requirements that necessiate owning a personal car, nothing wrong with that, no different than the gardner need a truck for the tools, etc.
So much is changing but it doesn't make navigating paradigm shifts any easier to absorb and accept.

[lvmci]

Transport Topics
April 28, 2023 3:05 PM, EDT
Toyota Class 8 Hydrogen Powertrain Approved in California

Toyota's hydrogen fuel cell powertrain for Class 8 trucks will be available in California later this year. (Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A)
[Stay on top of transportation news: Get TTNews in your inbox.]

Toyota is to begin offering Class 8 commercial truck manufacturers and operators a hydrogen-fueled powertrain in California later this year after winning zero-emission certification for the product from the state Air Resources Board, the Japanese automotive giant said April 24.

Commercial production of the powertrain for customers will start at the company's Georgetown, Ky., facility, the largest manufacturing site in Toyota's global portfolio. Toyota's powertrain kit includes hydrogen fuel storage tanks, fuel cell stacks, batteries, electric motors and transmission.

"We believe hydrogen will play a significant role in the emissions reduction of heavy-duty transport while not sacrificing the distance, power or fueling times needed to keep these fleet and individual operators running," said Chris Rovik, Toyota Motor North America's  executive program manager of advanced mobility.

[windtrader]

I suspect most agree hydrogen is and can increase use in fleet and commercial applications. Government has them in vehicle pools where they retuurn regularly and can refuel. I just can not find any way that it will have any penetration in the personal vehicle market. Thanks for the updates.

[buswarrior]

I' m sure everyone has noticed the cost of personal automobiles has increased faster than the average person budget. The other disturbing trend is increasingly automobiles are rolling internet connected devices. Look at the "services" now offered via online subscriptions. Everything from emergency notifications, enabling extra features, increasing motor and vehicle performance, etc.

What is happening is between the hollowing out of the middle class, work from home/fewer trips to an office, and pricing beyond the traditional market's limits means less ownership coming soon. In place will be increased Uber type autonomyous service hailed to your door when you need a ride. Much like those living in NYC for example, they don't own a personal car. That will become far more normal.

That said, some people have requirements that necessiate owning a personal car, nothing wrong with that, no different than the gardner need a truck for the tools, etc.
So much is changing but it doesn't make navigating paradigm shifts any easier to absorb and accept.

This is not new, it is a correction to previous times.

The peasants walk, and worry about the next meal.

Only royalty and the rich have horses and carriages.

The grand, post war experiment is coming to an end, the royals and the rich are tired of rubbing elbows with us.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

[luvrbus]

You wonder how much torque and hp the ISX 15 is going to loose with Hydrogen,they have a lot to give up though it's big engine