Has anyone driven there bus on Tail of the Dragon?

[Jim Blackwood]

OK I'm just going to say it: Do NOT take your bus on the Dragon. To be totally frank about it, that is just Ignorant, and if you know the road, then ignorance is no longer an excuse and it has become stupid instead.

This is no place for crossing the centerline, and there's no way you can drive that road without doing just that. With about a hundred blind corners (no exaggeration) and both sports car drivers and motorcyclists sometimes ignoring the centerline as well, you will be lucky to get through without a bike or a rider or both wedged up underneath you and who needs that?

As a native of WV, it's oft said that if the state were flat the total area would be the size of Texas. Probably a slight exaggeration, I've driven Texas and it's a little hard to agree but Left Coasties just do not understand how contorted the ground really is. It's much less a matter of concern for damaging your bus and much more a matter of accidentally killing someone.

So just don't do it. Those tight rural Appalachian roads are no place for a bus. There are better places to drive it, and that WV turnpike referred to is one of them if you want curvy. Rt 19 is another. And if you want a deserted stretch drive Rt 60 between Sam Black Church and Lewisburg. Stick to roads well suited to the bus. Federal Highways are always a good choice.

If you want to drive a tight little road like the Dragon, park, unhitch your Toad, and drive it in that. And beware, there are MUCH tighter roads than the Dragon.

Jim

[luvrbus]

You need to skip Idaho if you don't like those type highways,they have 1 north south highway and it goes along the river and cliffs with no guard rails most of the road tour drivers don't seem to mind it though.I don't like the high way from Boise to Stanley you go up 8000ft with switch backs and then come down the same way   

[Jim Blackwood]

I lived out west for 4 years, partly in Cali and partly up on the plateau and wandered all around and I can tell you that what you guys consider a tight curvy road is a walk in the park. Just no comparison at all unless you want to count your dirt oxpaths. Or maybe sheep trails. The Appalachians are OLD mountains compared to the newcomer Rockies , Sierra-Nevadas and Wasatch and have been eroded into countless gullies and ravines that the western mountains just don't have. Sure out there you have altitude changes and that's it's own challenge but the phrase, "You can't get there from here." was born in the Appalachians and is as true today as it ever was. With a bus, even more so. It's not so much the sheer drop offs and lack of guard rails although those situations can surely be dangerous and intimidating. It's more the lack of adequate ROOM to put a road, yet put roads they did. They faithfully followed the old Indian trails and ferry roads and you really haven't experienced life to the fullest until you've been down one of those old unimproved ferry roads like Wood's Ferry on the Gauley River used to be. After much MUCH improvement over decades of time they can now get a school bus down to the river to take out whitewater rafts (there is no ferry, probably since the Civil War) but they use radios going in and out and outgoing has the right of way. No radio? You are not welcome. Even if, don't you DARE try to take your RV bus down there. They would probably burn it. After you dropped  your rears off the edge and they rolled it down the mountain to clear the road. And that's to say nothing about all the pleasures of the impossible backing and filling you'd discover on the very first moderately sharp turn with more and worse to come.

Be smart. Just don't.

Jim

[luvrbus]

I have been all over Virginia the roads do have a lot curves in the Appalachians in the lates 60's our low boys hauling pipeline equipment from the east side to west used a lot of those roads with escorts.They would get hung up sometime ,I didn't find them that bad and I was flat lander lol we did replace a lot of bridges back then when the truck fell into one.To me the cow paths in PA they called highways in the mountains were worse. Tazewell VA sticks in mind for some reason I have yet to figure out why CRS 

[Jim Blackwood]

Virginia does have a few fairly respectable roads once you get up into the mountains, Tidewater Virginia not so much. It's a different state though in very many ways.

Seeing the sights in the Appalachians and the Blue Ridge is a fine pastime but it'd be good advice to spend some quality time with your road atlas before heading off the beaten path. Even better is to acquire an atlas for each state you will be spending time in, which will have detailed maps down to the county road level. Relying on a GPS for navigation in such an environment while traveling in a bus would strike me as the height of foolhardiness.

Jim

[freds]

No but I did do Teton pass out of Jackson Hole Wyoming west bound.

That was a real experience and I ended up doing a pull out for the night about two thirds of the way up the pass.

Turning out my shift linkage needs adjusting as it wouldn't lock into first gear and was constantly shifting between first and second, so the bus wound up over heating and it actually shut down as soon as I pulled off.

A lot of people ended up camping out on the pass that night. A couple of them camped right next to me in a tent and I let them know I wouldn't lock the front door since it was bear country.

Next morning with the bus cold it made it the rest of the way over the pass and saw lots of people in both directions that elected to call it night during their passage.

I did have great cell/internet coverage so I watched a movie before bed.

[windtrader]

No need to get into my state's curves are tighter than yours. I'm sure there are plenty of really tight turns in all areas. I was just thinking about how long CA is and the overlay map RJ posted really highlights how many states you cross in the same distance from traveling I5 from the Mexican border to the CA-OR border. Just add a couple more states on the I5 and you are knocking at Canada's door.


The other very unique characteristic of California is the geography and the weather patterns created by it's latitude, proximity to the Pacific Ocean, prevailing westerly wind, and the flow of air coming from the Arctic north. 


I was thinking about different places to live with similar weather. Big zero. It is the only place in the continental USA that is blessed with anything close to these factors that provide such an incredibly pleasant overall year-round mild climate.


Plus as Cheese comments about the variety of the ocean, massive mountains, and deserts. It is a lot to pack into one place. No matter how bad the politics get, outrageously expensive, jammed urban cities, etc. it will always be at the top of places where people would like to live.


Unless you live here you really are missing seeing the shift to EV. There are plenty of Teslas now and still plenty of all varieties running down the OHV lanes during commute hours. Many commercial places such as office parks and shopping centers and parking garages are lined with charge stations. It is not the future but well underway here.


The other cultural perspective one would not experience unless spending time in the south bay or the City is the pervasive tech orientation of nearly everyone here. The chatter, whether standing in the line at the grocery store, or grabbing a coffee is always buzzing about some tech related topic.


Other places are growing tech but it will be a very long time before Silicon Valley no longer floats in the premier tier of tech entrepreneurship.

[Jim Blackwood]

No need to get into my state's curves are tighter than yours. I'm sure there are plenty of really tight turns in all areas.

Very reasonable. My intention was to point out that there are places a bus should and should not go. Maybe I could have done that better and I hope I can be forgiven for saying what could be taken as personal criticism, which was not my aim.

But the point is, roads like the Dragon have become infamous as sports car and fast bike playgrounds. Which is both good and bad. Mainly what that means is that what may once have been a fairly benign challenge to driving skill in a big rig has become a threat to the survival of the customary denizens of those roads. The problem is twofold. One, you can not expect every driver or rider on such a road to be obeying the speed limits, the passing zones, or the center lines. That's just being practical because the truth of the matter is that a higher than average percentage of drivers there are present for the very reason that they intend to drive that way. To their mind they will do so in a safe manner, and given relatively normal conditions, they will be. The second part of the problem comes from basically two fronts as well. First the presence of sightseers, which will always be there in some numbers, essentially creating what are to the hot shoes a rolling roadblock. They know and accept that this will not change. The second is the occasional presence of a vehicle which should never be on that road in the first place. A perfect example is an 18 wheeler. If you have driven that road I'm sure you can imagine what that would be like. I don't have to, I've seen it. What you end up with is a truck that spans the entire pavement in the corners, gets high centered, and has a bike underneath it because he came around the next corner and had no place to go and no room to stop.

A bus would have much the same problem.

It doesn't matter what state this happens in. What does matter is that the big rig should not have been there. And if you are, it doesn't help a bit that you thought you had the skills to get through. Especially if the biker dies.

Jim

[dtcerrato]

OK I'm just going to say it: Do NOT take your bus on the Dragon. To be totally frank about it, that is just Ignorant, and if you know the road, then ignorance is no longer an excuse and it has become stupid instead.
Jim

Jim thanks for your response, It's not exactly what I was looking for but at least only you referred to the Dragon & more than once so thanks for the acknowledgement . We've been enjoying the posts that this one has created as people's travels and chatting geographical stomping grounds are always fun to read.
We've owned our only coach since April of 79 and after 42 years she's still OEM 200HP two stroke 671IL. We raised our family in it & full timed it traveling 46 of the 50 states including AK twice with 3rd run coming this summer & 6 of the 10 Canadian provinces. It's towed 9 different vehicles from 1T to 3.5T, 7 different trailers from 2T to 5T and 2 boats. The coach has been through and some multiple times most of the National Parks & Forests, BLM Lands, National Seashores, & State parks etc etc. in the states traveled. We've been through & on top of some of the the Appalachians, Adirondacks, Poconos, Wasatch Front, Sierra Madres, Sierra Nevada's, Rockies, Canadian Rockies, etc. etc. in the bus. Never got a speeding ticket in the coach LOL – actually only been stopped by the law in the bus twice in 42 years – once in TX on I-10 for having wifey in the towed pushing me in the bus east bound for 30miles cause we ran out of fuel before the fuel gauge was installed. 2nd time on the Canadian USA border for not declaring a pair of giant moose antlers! Never was involved in an at-fault accident nor fender bender- sure hope I'm not jinxing myself here. Nothing better than sharing stories around a campfire, got a bunch of em'– one of these days – ya just never know. Getting screwed up with someone on the road drunk or texting or jibber jabbering has a lot better chance of happening than a collision with a bus on the Dragon mostly in 2nd gear at 20+ mph IMHO.
Maybe if we ever sit at the same camp fire I'll tell ya the story of when we were driving the coach to the very top parking lot of Kings Canyon NP for 1980 Thanksgiving dinner and stopped traffic dead on the way up due to bus mid body in oncoming lane. The rangers on horseback that help dislodge the jam shared some spirit with us later on at the bus. Stayed froze down there for four days.
Carry on.

[uncle ned]

I would bet that in 1953  greyhound ran buses on roads just as tight as the dragon.

Huggy has been over it twice.  Once in both directions.

And she did not have any problems.

I believe hy. 321 coming into pigeon forge has a couple of curves just as tight as the dragon and people know to look.

The dragon was more fun on my Floyd Clymner Velo Indian sidecar.
A big 500 cc british single.

uncle ned

[uncle ned]

And by the way on the week ends there a law enforcement person on about ever corner.

Too many people got killed and hurt on for a few years.

Not that way now.

speed limit is what now Dan.

uncle ned

[Dave5Cs]

The other very unique characteristic of California is the geography and the weather patterns created by it's latitude, proximity to the Pacific Ocean, prevailing westerly wind, and the flow of air coming from the Arctic north. 


I was thinking about different places to live with similar weather. Big zero. It is the only place in the continental USA that is blessed with anything close to these factors that provide such an incredibly pleasant overall year-round mild climate.

Don it is interesting you say this because we have said it many times since we have been traveling. The weather is a big factor in many states we have been to. Food prices are another and fuel of course. Houses yes are more in California but in other states the newer homes are up there too, the older ones you get more land around them but are generally out a ways from any groceries or food places, Everyone mows their huge yards all week kind of funny but looks nice and in Kansas besides everything is so far apart it is really windy. Just this week they decided to vote on taking the tax .6.5% off food at the grocery store. California has not paid taxes on food ever since I can remember. Missouri and parts of Kansas has no smog or car inspections. Some areas do but not many. Arizona is just HOT and windy and sandy, Same with Texas. Not a fan. And non of these states have an Ocean can you believe that.

[luvrbus]

Don it is interesting you say this because we have said it many times since we have been traveling. The weather is a big factor in many states we have been to. Food prices are another and fuel of course. Houses yes are more in California but in other states the newer homes are up there too, the older ones you get more land around them but are generally out a ways from any groceries or food places, Everyone mows their huge yards all week kind of funny but looks nice and in Kansas besides everything is so far apart it is really windy. Just this week they decided to vote on taking the tax .6.5% off food at the grocery store. California has not paid taxes on food ever since I can remember. Missouri and parts of Kansas has no smog or car inspections. Some areas do but not many. Arizona is just HOT and windy and sandy, Same with Texas. Not a fan. And non of these states have an Ocean can you believe that.

[luvrbus]

It is hot a windy here in Az in the summer months that why you leave,3 hours we can go from 120 degrees to 70 degrees with plenty of green and mountians.lol even here in the valley we are getting over run by Californians.Our highways here won't handle all the new traffic it is always backed up now. I saw a pickup loaded with furniture he had a big sign on the rear "Newsom kiss my @$# good bye". Northern California and San Diego I love, the rest you can keep to many wacky laws and fruit cakes for me to live there ,then I am not real happy here going into Sams and everyone is packing heat in a store,OK had sales taxes on food Idaho does too I think both have changed now like you I never saw that before.It tooks years for me to adjust to state income taxes in OK,Idaho and AZ never heard of a state income tax before in my life,state income taxes in AZ are on the way out now but they will tax  something else you can bet on it>In the end all states in this nation have the Good,Bad and Ugly.even WY   

[Jim Blackwood]

Those "Cops on every corner" are now writing tickets for crossing the yellow centerline. And guess what? They have photographic evidence. No getting out of it. Think they will give your bus a pass? Maybe you are a gambling man.

Jim