Electric Buses in California

[CrabbyMilton]

I don't know how it progressive on my part to expect states to handle their own problems?
I don't expect California or any other state to take care of Milwaukee's sewage problems.
Who wants dirty air and water? I don't want the solutions to chase jobs away.
Individual, local and state responsibility is what gets things done not some federal program.
I'm put off by those that seem to disparage oil and how much better other countries are than us.
The good old USA is still the greatest country on earth despite what our enemies and former president say.

[Dave5Cs]

Thanks you just made my point, LOL

[CrabbyMilton]

Glad to help.

[richard5933]

I don't know how it progressive on my part to expect states to handle their own problems?
I don't expect California or any other state to take care of Milwaukee's sewage problems.
Who wants dirty air and water? I don't want the solutions to chase jobs away.
Individual, local and state responsibility is what gets things done not some federal program.
I'm put off by those that seem to disparage oil and how much better other countries are than us.
The good old USA is still the greatest country on earth despite what our enemies and former president say.

Not sure which side of this you're on...

In one post you say that states should take care of their own problems. In another you appear to say that California is doing this wrong at the moment. If you're in favor of states handling this on their own, then that's exactly what CARB is - California taking charge of their situation.

Of course, unless we can stop one state's pollution from washing downhill into another state, there has to be some type of coordination between states. That's why we have a Federal government.

I agree, greatest nation on earth. But, at the moment some parts of this great nation are suffering from amnesia of how bad things were in the middle to end of the last century - you know, the whole rivers catching fire thing... We've come a long way since then and I would like to see the improvements continue.

I too live in Wisconsin, the state that brought Earth Day to the world and used to be a world leader in all things environmental. There's a veritable fortune to be made in the new industries coming on board, from electric vehicles to solar energy to high speed trains. We've got an enormous infrastructure in Wisconsin/Milwaukee that could be put back in service manufacturing products for these industries and it can be done in a way that is financially feasible and environmentally safe.

[CrabbyMilton]

I'm on the side where the states should take charge of their own.
I just make the observation since California is always running to the feds to solve their problems.
Yes things have improved and people have a vested interest  and have taken charge to correct the problems.
But the green wackos go too far and that costs jobs.
As far as high speed trains are concerned, let the private sector and free market determine that.
The government already spends tons of money on Amtrak and it still loses money.
If there was a demand, the freight haulers would offer passenger service on their lines.

[Dave5Cs]

Typical "The Green Wacko's" sounds like someone we all know lately. California doesn't run to the Feds. That is the way the Governments are set up, States can only do so much and by the way California pays a lot of the countries Taxes and so has the rights to use them as do other states.

Maybe we should all just Rake the forests as they do in Finland, LOL

[Geoff]

I dunno, but California had massive Forest fires this year because of the tree huggers.  A lot of people died,  a lot of people lost their houses.

[richard5933]

I dunno, but California had massive Forest fires this year because of the tree huggers.  A lot of people died,  a lot of people lost their houses.

Please provide some evidence that 'tree huggers' were somehow to blame for the fires. So far, the only cause cited in the news is possibly something that went wrong with power company equipment.

[CrabbyMilton]

Rush uses the term envrionmental wacko but I came up with Green Wacko so feel free to use that.
CA. still can't grasp the idea of converting salt water into fresh but they want to build a high speed train that won't make any money.
Nuff said.

[richard5933]

...but they want to build a high speed train that won't make any money...

Making money is required now for public works projects?

How many airports make money for the municipalities that pay for them? (most lose money) Or highways? (most are fully supported by taxes) Any National parks making a profit? What about state parks?

Sometimes we decide, as a society, that some things are necessary and/or desirable. Then we pool our resources and build them. That vast network of freeways and interstate highways we enjoy traveling over in our buses make no profit and cost millions a year to maintain, yet I doubt that any of us want to go back to the days before they existed.

[Geoff]

Please provide some evidence that 'tree huggers' were somehow to blame for the fires. So far, the only cause cited in the news is possibly something that went wrong with power company equipment.

My God, the power lines may have started the fire due to overgrowth rubbing on the lines, but it was the lack of clearing the forests and cutting trees that was the problem.  Here in Arizona, we have bush clearing and designated tree cutting to ease the fire danger, I don't see that in CA.  Just think about how much pollution was dumped with these forest fires, a lot more than converting to all electric transit buses.

[richard5933]

My God, the power lines may have started the fire due to overgrowth rubbing on the lines, but it was the lack of clearing the forests and cutting trees that was the problem.  Here in Arizona, we have bush clearing and designated tree cutting to ease the fire danger, I don't see that in CA.  Just think about how much pollution was dumped with these forest fires, a lot more than converting to all electric transit buses.

Have you got any evidence that this was not being done or that the fire was caused by poor forest management? Or more specifically, that action of 'tree huggers' had some role to play in whatever was the cause of the death/damage done?

Sorry, but it does get kind of old when people throw around phrases like 'tree huggers' - seems like the intention is nothing more than to raise hackles.

On a side note, the majority of the forest land in California is under management of the Federal govt, not the State of California.

[dtcerrato]

Here where we reside in heavily forested Florida (Ocala National Forest) there are perpetual "control burns" by the US Forest Service all year long to control undergrowth & fuel in general. On our 7 acres alone there are two "spans" of high voltage lines feeding our transformer & a neighbors transformer. When we purchased the property - part of the land deed wording mandatorily grants the supplying power company approved access to the land for "vegetation control". Our electric coop just recently spent a full day marking trees for either pruning or complete removal for the safety of their grid system. That includes stump grinding at the land owners request. During hurricanes - w/o this practice its futile to keep the power on. When we built our home we elected to have underground service from the last overhead power pole to the structure (about 300') so as not to have that "vegetation control" (3rd party tree service contractors) come anywhere close to the home. This occurs about every three years - we've been here since 83. Buy the way vegetation grows extremely fast in Florida - this is "our" wettest year on record at 73" & counting. Not wet all the time though, our fire class rating is 10 being the worst from 1 thru 10 & it was a miracle to find a company that would underwrite a homeowners insurance property for a log home...

[CrabbyMilton]

Richard, one of the core functions of any level of government is roads.
Parks are set aside for our enjoyment but passenger rail ought to be in the private sector.
I'm talking about longer distance not localized commuter type to avoid misunderstanding.
Private airlines make money and say what you want but it's a proven model that the free market determined to be the preferred mode of cross country travel.
Yes cars and buses make up the balance.

[windtrader]

Salt water can be converted to fresh

If this was done at scale, the Earth would be uninhabitable as it takes mucho heat (energy) to desalinate ocean water.


Nobody likes more regulations but it becomes forced as the residents of Earth are too stupid to speak up when big problems are brewing. The example Richard offers where rivers have to catch fire before action is take to clean them up, really? The majority of residents are just too f...ng lazy and exercise their civic duty to get engaged with the issues affecting everyone.


California is unique as it is huge yet a US state so it has the political ability to enact legislation to address large scale issues early on. As is often stated, "As California go, so goes the nation". California is the canary in the coal mine for many issues facing people as we progress.


Looking forward, China is leading the charge in many areas for obvious reasons. It's a dual edge sword but the ChiComs can effect change a whole lot faster when desired.