Electric Buses in California

[Geoff]

I did a simple search on Trump and EPA/CARB so everybody could read for themselves:

Trump wants to get rid of CARB

Copy and paste on Google

[CrabbyMilton]

That would be great but he can't always act unilaterally.

[windtrader]

We know he has a few screws loose but how can he get rid of California ARB which is basically a states rights issue, adding onto the federal level regulations??

[richard5933]

I believe he's trying to do away with the bit of law that allows CA to set its own standards.

[Geoff]

I believe he's trying to do away with the bit of law that allows CA to set its own standards.

Exactly.  CA was allowed to make their own EPA standards because they claimed they were more polluted than other states.  Trump wants to put them back on the Federal EPA Standards and reduce some ridiculous future year standards for the EPA in general.

[richard5933]

Not only was it claimed that there was a problem - it was reality.

https://www.kcet.org/shows/lost-la/las-smoggy-past-in-photos

(Added bonus - there are bits about buses in this article)

There is no denying that a problem existed, and that a problem had to be enacted. The question to me is whether this is the time to try running without the protections that have been enacted since the problem was at its worst. I don't have the answer - it's possible things will continue to be okay, and it's possible that the situation will quickly revert to what it was before the fix was put in place.

If the decision is made to remove protections based on sound research about the consequences I don't see a problem. If the decision is being made as a political one, then look for things to fall apart.

[Geoff]

I don't know why anyone is thinking that freezing future EPA standards is going to be retroactive.  Not in the least.  I've been in England and Europe in general and they are a lot of diesel cars getting great fuel milage that can't be imported here.

[richard5933]

EPA and CARB are two different things.

If California loses the ability to set its own standards, then only the Federal EPA standards will apply. Many of the current regulations in place in California will be removed. This could be considered retroactive.

England and the EU both have emission standards. They also have safety standards. Many of the vehicles that cannot be imported to the US don't comply with our standards, but that doesn't mean that they don't comply with any standards. The EU standards are different than ours, and my understanding is that it's not a question of the US having better/tougher standards but rather a question of different standards. Some manufacturers build vehicles that meet all the standards, and some only build to meet one set.

[Geoff]

EPA and CARB are two different things.

If California loses the ability to set its own standards, then only the Federal EPA standards will apply. Many of the current regulations in place in California will be removed. This could be considered retroactive.

England and the EU both have emission standards. They also have safety standards. Many of the vehicles that cannot be imported to the US don't comply with our standards, but that doesn't mean that they don't comply with any standards. The EU standards are different than ours, and my understanding is that it's not a question of the US having better/tougher standards but rather a question of different standards. Some manufacturers build vehicles that meet all the standards, and some only build to meet one set.

I don't consider bringing California ARB in with the rest of the states as being "retroactive"-- I consider it to be bringing the state in with Federal standards, which are good enough, or overbearing already.

[richard5933]

I don't consider bringing California ARB in with the rest of the states as being "retroactive"-- I consider it to be bringing the state in with Federal standards, which are good enough, or overbearing already.

Call it what works for you - retroactive or a correction.

My concern is still the same - whether or not making this change will result in things getting better or worse. We all can have our own priorities with regard to this, but I hope that we can all agree a return to a situation like existed decades ago with rampant smog and pollution is not the answer.

I don't know if electric buses are the answer. I don't know what the answer is. But I do have a general sense that something has to be done so that we can leave things better than we found them.

[Jeremy]

The EU standards are different than ours, and my understanding is that it's not a question of the US having better/tougher standards but rather a question of different standards.

As an example of that I believe one difference - which at first sight is almost inconsequential and yet causes European manufacturers an immense amount of grief - is about how dashboard switches are labelled:-

Because Europe consists of many countries and many languages it is normal for European cars to use symbols on dashboard switches rather than words, and a standard set of symbols that everyone uses and understands has been in place for decades. But US regulations apparently require dashboard switches to have text / words on them rather than symbols, which frequently requires the switches to be physically bigger, with knock-on effects for the rest of dashboard design - cue majorly expensive redevelopment work for no actual benefit whatsoever other than meeting some fairly pointless technical regulation

Jeremy

[Dave5Cs]

Windy, A few screws loose? LOL

Geoff, You did a simple search on Trump? How is that done these days?lol
It may be ridiculous for Arizona where you have nothing but dust, dust and sand, but California, fires and all has things to see and relax under trees and breath clean air. LOL
Being California is the 3rd largest state we have to protect ourselves from the rest of the country who dirty the air and just don't care.

Richard you are welcome here...

[richard5933]

Richard you are welcome here...

Thanks!

Never could understand how human beings, so seemingly intelligent, sometimes can't figure out that it's best not to pee into our drinking water (meant both metaphorically and literally here.) We had horses for a few years, and they seemed to understand that it's best not to pee on the good grass and hay. Dogs will instinctively leave their nest to take care of business. Humans? Seems we prefer easy & cheap and will happily drop our discharge hose into the lake right next to where our city's drinking straw is. Then we all look around wondering why people get sick.

[CrabbyMilton]

These should all be state laws. There are areas that understand this but I live in Milwaukee where our stupid mayor dumps poop in Lake Michigan and that's our source of drinking water. This was years in the making but he does nothing to try to fix it just wet his pants over a street car that goes in a big loop at < 10mph.
I think until California votes for people with common sense, they can continue to expect restrictions on all vehicles. After all, they are the same people that complain about the lack of drinking water when they are next to the largest body of water on God's earth. Salt water can be converted to fresh.

[Dave5Cs]

That's not common sense.
It's called progressive thinking and preparing for things that are going to happen not Business as usual because I don't have to do anything and all is good if it stays the same.

It's like people who say they don't believe in Climate change. Well mostly because they invest in oil and they know that might mean it will hit them financially. Well if they don't pay attention it may hit them in more ways that will cost them dearly. Most other country's are paying attention and doing things to help slow it down and helping so that we leave this earth better for the next generation.

Kind of like our Buses someday they will be outlawed and then we can be thankful we had them and all the fun that went with them and then drive them into a lake of the ocean for fish habitat, Cool!

Or we can just sit on our Butts and complain and drink beer and piss in the lake and tell our kids , "Sorry bout the lake but Grampa had fun hope you can find something to drink now". Oh don't go in the lake it will make you sink oh ya and put on your sunblock # 2500 wouldn't want to get burned up now would you. LOL