Considering a Bus Purchase

[luvrbus]

Richard's coach conversion is a good example. Purchased as in great shape and low mileage. So far he has had furnace issues?, water circulating pump issues, Onboard factory ac issues. I may have missed some. I don't know how much he has spent to date for repairs, but the point is...no matter how good a coach conversion or shell is, you are going to have unanticipated expenses, so make sure you have money for these things in reserve. Being aware up front can avoid some of the disappointment.

Those items are things most bus nuts do their self and never involve a job,you start popping 30+ grand for a engine at Interstate like some I know of that will get your attention or 12k for transmission ,7k for brakes if you can find the parts it going to happen if you own a old bus without knowing the history, then it is still a crap shoot 

[lvmci]

Hi mmaning, good luck with your search. I got a good deal with my second bus, a company with a good reputation for maintainance, in a mild climate, only surface rust, most everything was functional.
But it had 650K miles. Just replaced airbag springs MCI had them, about $175 each X6, they we're all nearly like bald tires with thread showing. So the good news about good maintaince is most things last longer, but those mechanics and their accumulated knowledge about your specific coach aren't there with you. If your lucky enough to get a new shell to conversion bus, with 100K miles, you get breathing room few others experience. lvmci...

[neoneddy]

When  I first purchased my bus?  Well, "How do I drive this thing?" ...  I watched a ton of youtube videos on RV driving, covering swing out, blowing a tire,  mirror setup, how to take right and left hand turns (On the right hand, when you feel like your hip is past the corner, make the turn).

Got it home.... now what?  I bought a shell, and the  PO didn't know too much  other than how to start and drive it and "We put rotella in " truth is, I think they used multiweight, but I digress.  So I dug into it, opened every panel, every thing that could be opened up and crawled into  I did.   

Then we tore out what hadn't already been removed (vinyl floor and seat rails mostly) then got to planning the layouts.  We laid down with tape many configurations, taking into account where the bath and shower would be and where bays would be for holding tanks, etc.   Within 2 months of owning it, we took a "Tin Can Tent" trip with it, and it was a blast.  We've tried to keep using it as we've built and found it to be essential to the build.  It's prototyping and testing things before they are finished up and set in stone.

We've had some harrowing experiences, stuck ont he side of the road for 3 hours in SD because of a fragile cracked 35 year old wire for one, but hey, you find it, you fix it.  I keep the manuals on a tablet computer with me  and some tools, not enough, but I'm getting there.  And of course my wife, who bless her heart, is pretty much the most supportive copilot a fella could ask for.

I'll take a moment to reflect on other nuts here, particularly Gumpy (where ya been BTW?) who recommended I buy a ready made coach.  We are a family of 6, and wanting dedicated sleeping quarters for the kiddos, not doing the sofa and dinette shuffle every night.  Which meant a sort of entertainer / rv hybrid.    I still waffle back and forth, would it have been better tp buy something done and remodeled it?   Well, maybe.   I still honestly don't know.   I'm a bit of a tech nerd, so I kitted mine out with 2.5kw of solar (added more if anyone has followed me), nice hybrid inverters working together, plus plenty of other tech goodies.  It truly is a second home for us, and I favored buying the stuff I wanted new vs dealing with decisions made in the 90s, I mean no offence of course. 

We bought our shell very reasonable, but I knew going it it was a potential liability.   We did it with 2 things in mind. 1, we'd like to try and cash flow it, not having $30-40k on hand.   2. Our kids were getting older, my dad has passed away that fall and I was (and still am in many ways) in the mindset of "We're not promised tomorrow, I'd rather enjoy the time I have with my kids now, see the country now, vs wait until the timing is perfect and have missed it" .   In the end we did end up doing a partial cash out refi on our home as well.  It wasn't just for the bus, we had bought at the very bottom of the market in 2011, had 60% equity, maybe pulled 30% out, got a better rate and paid for a needed kitchen remodel as well.   

[Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM]

As Wulf Ward wrote in one of his many articles for BCM, who has converted a few coaches himself in his spare time, many buses costs the same in the long run.  If you buy a bus for $10-$20k you may spend $50k bringing it up to par before you even start the conversion whereas if you buy a $40K bus in better condition you may spend $10-$20K to bring it up to ready condition before the conversion. 

As noted before, buying an already converted coach is a better bang for the buck now-a-days as many people would say, but it may be worth spending more on a good running bus that only needs a little work to bring it up to road-worthiness than buying an older poorly maintained bus.  It is always better to buy a currently running bus because you know most things should be fine on it rather than one that has been sitting in a field for some time.  Also, buses without slides are a great deal now because most people with significant others, love those slides whereas many people on here, would not own a bus with a slide due to their bad reputation of getting stuck out at the worst time and the leaks that eventually occur which can cost a LOT to repair.

But of course, all this depends if you have all of the proper tools and equipment already, a good place to do the work on it without the neighbors complaining, and you can do all of the work yourself.  But then again, if it takes you a year of labor to get a bus ready for the road, it will be one less year you can enjoy it.  But on the other hand, if you build your own bus from scratch, if something stops working, you will know exactly where to look and there is a great feeling knowing you can fix almost everything in a bus you built yourself.

The other alternative which our Moderator Phil Lyons chose is to buy a good working bus and tear out the entire interior and build it the way you want it.  That way many of the expensive items such as generator, inverters, batteries, tanks, tow package, etc. etc. are already there and it is just a matter of rearranging the interior to your liking.  Something to consider.  Check here for a video of Phil's bus in process of being renovated. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT75sOHG51c.


Just my 2-cents worth.

[luvrbus]

I hate the term a bus is a "hobby" it is a friggn job and a expensive to keep one going.lol mine set in the shop and cost me $450.00 for batteries yesterday 

[Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM]

I hate the term a bus is a "hobby" it is a friggn job and a expensive to keep one going.lol mine set in the shop and cost me $450.00 for batteries yesterday 

Yes, but for you Cliff, that is an hours pay. It takes me all month to save up that much money.  Everything is relative. 

[Jon]

$450??

It seems like anything related to the bus has 4 digits in it. That won't buy one house battery.

I'm getting to hate going into the bus garage. As time marches on I can literally hear the coins falling to the pit. They represent how the damn bus costs money just sitting there. Tires, batteries, insurance, depreciation, air bags, etc.

[luvrbus]

The $450 was for 2 8-d starting batteries cheapest ones I could find with any type warranty

[chessie4905]

Chump change. Just replace a couple air compressor governors.lol

[Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM]

The $450 was for 2 8-d starting batteries cheapest ones I could find with any type warranty

Heck Cliff. I will sell you two 8D batteries for only $250 without any warranty and will save you $200.  When do you want them delivered? 

[Jim Blackwood]

Good discussion but something that nobody has touched on yet is the newer wide body bus. Going from a 96" to a 102" width gives you another 6" of inside width and while that doesn't sound like much, just stand in the pass-through to the bedroom and imagine how it would feel to have that extra elbow room. It can be the difference between slides and no slides. Rarely will you find a 102" conversion for sale for less than say, $30K or so, which can take it out of reach, but occasionally they do show up.

Now along the same lines, I found a webpage that listed turning radii for a wide range of bus makes and models, don't ask where I have no idea. It might have been an MCI page. Anyway the most interesting thing about it was that practically all buses from the new ones going back for decades to some of the very early ones have a radius in the range of about 45-50ft and the surprising thing was that the older ones took more room than the new ones. In fact it seems the 45 ft 102's by and large are the sharpest turning ones of the bunch, making them possibly the most maneuverable. I'd love to hear some feedback on this from you old time drivers who have herded most of these down the highway. It's hard to justify the search for a 35' bus when it takes more room to turn it than a 45.

Major decisions like this are often made on a big stack of minor issues, some larger than others. So to the above we can add the driveline, the suspension, and a good number of other things as well. For example from what I've seen, 1994 appears to be a particularly good year for MCI. You get the 4 stroke engine without the full blown electronics package. You get the good automatic. The chassis is well proven by that year. Self leveling and kneeling were common. Lots of 102DL3's made that year and a lesser number of D3's. Now 25 years old, used buses are hitting the market for under $10K in pretty good condition. Now that's not converted of course but there are a lot less 102's converted than earlier buses, meaning that if you do want the 102 the time lag finding the ideal converted coach may take a large fraction of the time required to convert the basic shell. And as was mentioned, there are advantages to being the builder.

I find myself in a rather odd position. The wife likes the Sprinter class B+ S&S. (I'm currently insisting that she will have to prove that she is willing to drive it) I on the other hand have a fairly extensive workshop, much of which would be very nice to have when on the road, so recently I've been playing with the idea of outfitting a DL3 as a mobile workshop. Let the wife have whatever she wants. I'm starting to think a specialized layout may be the way I should go.  In this case the ideal starting point would still be a converted or partially converted bus with most or all systems in place, but with a stripped or gutted interior. But if it takes $10-20K to have that over a shell it starts to make a lot more sense to just start with the shell. After all, while those component costs do add up, what do you suppose is the 2nd hand value of all those bits as they come in the used conversion?

Also the parts you install do not absolutely have to be new. Units such as inverters, gensets, and water heaters are available as salvage and can serve the purpose equally well or better than what comes with the conversion. A little effort is needed to find them but I dare say many on this forum know where to look. The time required is still very much a factor of course.

Jim

[kyle4501]

Some background on my experience in buying a used motorhome that was never used in commercial service.
I bought a 27 year old factory built motorhome (a 1987 Newell) with less than 150k miles. It is a 102 wide coach, no slides, 8V92t, 740 Allison, 12.5K diesel generator. (The interior color scheme looks best at night with the lights off.  )
It was well maintained, even had fresh brakes with top of the line components used. Suspension is tight & no play in steering.

Here are some of the costs I have enjoyed in the 3+ years I have owned it.

Costs to keep & maintain -
8 tires at $500 ea every 8 years = $500 per year.
Oil changes
lights & lenses
fan belts
hoses
batteries - 4 ea 8-D @ $250 ea


Then there are the (hopefully) once in ownership costs -
I just replaced all 12 airbags on mine ( as pm due to age ) @ $2500
Replaced drive axle studs & all 80 lug nuts @ $500
Ride height valves @100
Shock absorbers (8 at $250) $2000
Water heater $500
Stone Bennett shifter repair $400
Battery cable & disconnect replacement $1000
Air throttle replacement $600
King cruise control $500
Roof A/C $700 x 2
Fridge $1000 to $2500
New front wheel spindle, bearings & kingpin kit $2000

So, with me starting with a good low mileage coach, I have been spending close to $4k per year.

These aren't for the feint of heart or shallow pockets.

If you are going to eat like an elephant, you better expect to $#!t like one !!!

[richard5933]

I'd love to hear some feedback on this from you old time drivers who have herded most of these down the highway. It's hard to justify the search for a 35' bus when it takes more room to turn it than a 45.
Jim

For comparison, per www.coachinfo.com:

GM 4106 is 35ft w/turning radius of 42 ft.
GM 4108 is 35ft w/turning radius of 44 ft.
GM 4501 (Scenicruiser) is 40ft w/turning radius of 45ft.

MCI MC-5 is 35ft w/turning radius of 46ft.
MCI MC-6 is 40ft w/turning radius of 47ft.
MCI MC-9 is 40ft w/turning radius of 51ft.
MCI MC-96A3 is 40ft w/turning radius of 43ft.
MCI MC-102A3 is 40ft (102" wide) w/turning radius of 44ft.

Our GM 4106 was quite nimble. Surprisingly so. Almost as good with our 4108. You can do about as well with some of the 102" wide MCI coaches as well.

[Ed Hackenbruch]

Yup, i always said our 5A needed 2 acres to get turned around......but on the other hand just try to stuff a 40 or 45 ft. bus in a 35ft. space! 

[luvrbus]

Those numbers were when the bus rolled off the line 30 years later the old girls don't make that turning radius anymore ,I've seen 35 ft buses MCI's and GM's that couldn't make it around a 60 ft cul-de-sac the first try 

The owners of the 4905 GM are the ones I tip my hat too, driving a 4905 without taking out every thing in it's path take skill. LOL my gate is 20ft wide and a 4905 has taken it out twice.Back to the programing my DL3 45 ft is a lot easier to get into a tight spot than my 40 ft Eagle or MCI 8 was, just watch the tail swing on the DL3 and it will fit