Considering a Bus Purchase

[richard5933]

Those numbers were when the bus rolled off the line 30 years later the old girls don't make that turning radius anymore ,I've seen 35 ft buses MCI's and GM's that couldn't make it around a 60 ft cul-de-sac the first try

How would age affect the turning radius?

For a GM 4106 to make a complete U-turn would take a cul-de-sac with a diameter of 84 ft. (twice the 42 ft radius).

[luvrbus]

You are measuring from the the center not the beginning and the outside of the cul-de-sac .60 ft cul-de -sac were designed for school buses to make a loop you see those long school buses making that loop without problems here,if they started in the center then it would be a problem 

[richard5933]

School buses have a much tighter turning radius, whether measured curb-to-curb or wall-to-wall. They were designed to be maneuverable in tight quarters, where most of our coaches were designed for the open road. That's why most school buses have so much overhang in the rear.

A GM 4106 as configured by GM and with the wheels turned all the way to one side should be able to make a circle that is approximately 84 ft in diameter.

[buswarrior]

84 feet? That's more than 8 LANE wide road...

It'll u-turn in less than that...

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

[luvrbus]

Cul-de-sac are not a complete circle they are 2/3 or less ,the fad in AZ now is all the dumb rounde ,rounds to control traffic those are tiny because it has 4 exits I doubt a bus could make the complete circle on one   

[richard5933]

Cul-de-sac are not a complete circle they are 2/3 or less ,the fad in AZ now is all the dumb rounde ,rounds to control traffic those are tiny because it has 4 exits I doubt a bus could make the complete circle on one   

I've got no fewer than half a dozen of these tiny roundabouts on the route to our house from the freeway. They've become all the rage out here, despite most people having no idea how to maneuver through them. I have absolutely no problem going all the way around in our 4108, although at times I've got to cross the lane marker to get around on the smallest of them.

According to the measuring tool on Google Maps, the smallest roundabout in our local area is about 75 feet radius, or 150 diameter. I'd have guessed much smaller based on how they look when driving through them.

Cul-de-sac design in Wisconsin (according the WiDOT) should have a radius of between 45-60ft (that's a diameter of 90-12ft.) That should make it possible for nearly all of our coaches to maneuver through one, if there are no other vehicles present and if the driver has the skills to do so. I'm sure other places have similar standards.

[luvrbus]

I am just saying the old axle mounted Sheppard power steering on a GM gets sloppy and the turning radius goes south in a hurry it never was that great to begin with  IMO ,every so often I can find a wreck 96a MCi with the Ross axle mounted steering GM owners hold a lottery to see who gets its

[muldoonman]

Bus ownership. Well got my OTR AC up and running on my 91 XL and went to take it down to get inspected. It's been hot here in Central Texas and Turned back up camera on. No juice to 12 volt systems in coach including water pumps and dash goodies. Hope you buy one as the fun never stops and want everyone to enjoy the work. As soon as I get 12 volt up and running it's off the Prevost Houston for a Level 3 check up and oil change and another $1400 bucks, that's if they don't find anything else wrong. The fun never ends. Yes Cliff/Luvrbus  this has got to be a Hobby as I wouldn't do it for anything else.   

[mmanning]

The buses I am tempted to check out either have a 8v71, 8v92, or 6v92 (i think I got that right).  What is it like to drive each?

Given the same stretch of road what would each drive like?  For instance, what would each be like on the interstate, each be like driving through bluffs similar to those found in south west Wisconsin, or each going up and over mountains?

Mike

Also, the conversation about turning in a cul-de-sac made me think of Austin Powers...  Anyone else? 

https://youtu.be/IGiQOCX9UbM

[richard5933]

The buses I am tempted to check out either have a 8v71, 8v92, or 6v92 (i think I got that right).  What is it like to drive each?
Mike

Also, the conversation about turning in a cul-de-sac made me think of Austin Powers...  Anyone else? 

Both of my GM buses have had the 8V71. Our first was mated to a V730 automatic and our current to a 4-speed manual. Main thing about these 2-strokes to me is that they sound like a bus is supposed to sound. Beyond that, they are good solid engines which have absolutely no computers or electronics.

Not big on power, but we've never had trouble keeping 65mph on the freeway. Our current bus can do over 70 easily on the flats, but it just doesn't seem like a good idea. Add a hill to the situation and things can get slower, a mountain and you've got time to walk to the back and make a sandwich.

We went from Milwaukee to Gillette WY this summer, and for the most part we had no problems.  I found that if I kept the speed up to about 65 the uphills were not as big a problem. If I let the speed drop closer to 55 the engine lugged a bit halfway up the bigger hills and I needed to downshift. According to www.flattestroute.com the area between La Crosse and the first rest stop in Minnesota actually had the steepest grades of the entire trip. Had to drop to third a few times climbing up from the river but nothing too bad. Same thing crossing the Missouri River in SD. My only no-go situation to date has been getting up from the falls in Sioux Falls when I had to stop at a stop sign at the top of a way-too-steep incline and couldn't get started again without burning the clutch.

I wouldn't let any of these 2-strokes scare you away from a bus. They served entire fleets of buses for decades. For the most part, parts and qualified mechanics are available. I've heard people talk about problems with parts, but to date there has been nothing we needed that wasn't available on either bus.

That video...could have been me trying to turn our bus around in our back lot the first time I brought it home. Thanks for the link.

[muldoonman]

The 8V92TA  and 755CR Allison Trans in mine runs like your car does on take off. Plenty of power. Have pulled/towed a F150 Super Crew Ford 4x4 and did it well.  Pull a smaller MKX SUV now and you don't even know it's back there. Most of our running is in the flat land of Texas but think it would pull the hills good also but would have to watch the heat if pulling a large vehicle.

[luvrbus]

World of difference the 6v92 is good little engine it makes the same power as a 8v71 with about the same cubic inches,then the 4 stroke 4 cylinder series 50 makes  as much power with better torque with less fuel usage with electronics.
The 8v82 will make as much power as you want but it comes at a price with fuel usage and heat,the 2 strokes are good engines but have a short life span compered to the newer 4 strokes if you are lucky you can squeeze 3 to 400,000 miles from one.Chasing down the 40w oil is getting to be tough and the 2 strokes will always use some oil plus, the 40W will cost more money than the 15/40 used in the 4 strokes about 10 bucks a gal more unless you find a sale.If you can find a bus with a 4 stroke engine they are more forgiving than a 2 stroke and cheaper to operate,and I am a 2 stroke guy but they are not cheap to keep going lol I have 3 in the shop now waiting to be rebuilt.MTU is dropping support on the 2 strokes in 2 years then parts are going to be even more expensive than they are now  good luck on your journey   

[windtrader]

With your budget you correctly identified a two stroke as your likely power plant. As the 8V92 is the top of the power ratings, the 6V71 is on the low end. Personally, it would not be a motor I chose. The 8V71 is the most likely to be in a bus in your price range. Buses with 8V92 are found in the last range of years before four strokes came on big around 1995.

There is a turbo option found on some 8V71s. The normally aspirated version is 8V71N while the turbo is 8V71T. It does have more power particularly at high altitude. Far fewer of the turbos are around but you may get lucky.

Even though a Series 50 is a four stroke, it just seems the production numbers are quite small compared to the Series 60, so parts may be more difficult to find in inventory. Not owning a Series 50 but suspect just about any counter has Series 60 parts readily available.
What you need/wish you had while driving depends mostly on terrain. Some here live and tour areas where terrain is rather mild. Out here west, you will absolutely know the hills are there in anything less than a Series 60 (500hp) engine. Between the Rockies and Sierra Nevada ranges, tales can be swapped all day which route is tougher to get over. There won't be any disagreement you'll be in first or second on some section of those routes.

So far, it hasn't turned into a major issue for me. I count the hours spent grinding up and divide over the entire hour meter and is really a very small part one spends in that mode. I can live with it and enjoy dodging and being part of the pack of semis doing the same crawl; that is the older ones. In fact, since you have so little power and momentum, maneuvering the slow lane traffic is actually a real challenge. Sometimes, you can just enjoy the scenery but other times it's like being on the central expressway at rush hour.

[luvrbus]

Yep the right lane was built for a 8v71,I see older buses powered by 8v71's going up the grade from Laughlin to Kingman a 11 mile 6% grade just climbing away at 10 mph but all the owners have a smile and eating lunch   

[lostagain]

We drove Courier 96 buses, and MC1s and 2s with 4-71s. Now that was slow. Only we didn't know it... Then we got 8V71s in the MC5s and MC7s. We thought they were pretty hot. Especially in the lighter MC5s.

So what's wrong with going up a hill in the slow lane with the loaded semis?

Fastest bus I ever drove was a 1995 D3 with a pre EGR 12.7L Series 60 with the 7 speed manual. It would go up in the fast lane with the cars. And that is loaded with the hockey team and their gear. Even the new cars with Volvos (Prevost) and Cummins ISX (MCI) aren't that fast.

JC