Engine is TOASTED

[Seangie]

Hey guys -  engine is primed.  Its definitely getting fuel.  Lots of black smoke.  With the ether it seems like it wants to go but just won't run.  The 2 stroke guy in the shop knows what he's doing and has said all the same things you guys have said. Before he scoped the 3 cylinders on the one side he was pulling his hair out cause it wouldn't start.  Doesn't make sense to any of us.

It is a crazy place to be in.  If I had half the skills most of you guys have I'd probably be in a better place.

We have time.  So I need to figure out thw best solution for us.  That's what I'm doing today.  Even if its a tow to another garage to get it figured out.

Still waiting for a quote from the guys in the garage.

Getting the ducks lined up.

-Sean

[Oonrahnjay]

...  Getting the ducks lined up.

-Sean

    And that's really all you can do - and make wise choices while you do; but that's the hard part.

[Lee Bradley]

Have you tried starting it with the air filter removed?

[Jim Eh.]

We just completed an engine overhaul on our shop loader. Broken rings, piston ring lands, piston tops all cracked. The pistons were so bad we had to plug in the block heater to warm up the cylinders to get enough compression for the thing to fire up. I think we went about as far as one could without a major meltdown. Looking at the pistons I was amazed the damn thing actually did fire up. Once it was running tho, other than a little blow-by, it ran with about 90% power of a fresh engine. Simply amazing.
Yours should run to get to another shop. Not well mind you but it should run. Heat or ether ... it should fire!

[luvrbus]

Is that engine equipped with a by pass blower ?

[Seangie]

Cliff -  Don't think so.


Lee - Yes.  Sprayed ether straight into the Turbo.

[Seangie]

Anyone have an Eagle or Prevost in good shape they want to sell for under 30k?

Figured it might be one of our options and thought I'd ask

-Sean

[luvrbus]

Is that a recent photo ? the exhaust connections are sure dry and clean for a bad DD.The by pass valve is on the rear of the blower

[Darkspeed]

Would not the next suspect be the injectors?

[John316]

Sean,

First off, I really feel for you. We have BTDT, just with a transmission.

Second off, sounds like you have a good 2 stroke guy working on it. Good to hear. However, don't just go with what he says. I normally step back and work through it from the beginning. Based on what everyone is saying, the engine should still run. If that is the case, I would figure that out first. Let them give you a quote on a rebuild, but if it should run, then make it run.

So, this is the way I work through it. Does it have fuel? Yes. What about air? What about exhaust? I would remove the exhaust, air filter, etc, just to see. Okay, then it needs the command to run. Do we for sure know that the start relay is working properly. Now do we really know it is working properly?

That's the way I normally work through something. If everyone says it should run, then it should run. Look for something small. Our bus wouldn't start one time. Totally dead. Turns out, it was a fuse buried in the front J box.

Hope it goes better for you!

John

[eagle19952]

is the shut down plunger stuck extended....happens alot 

[luvrbus]

One last thing before I leave Sean to make his decision just because it is puffing black smoke doesn't mean the engine has a good prime the 92's will puff black smoke without a solid prime  

[blue_goose]

What a mess, wish I could help but will try to input some.  No fuel = no smoke at exhaust.  Fuel = white smoke at exhaust.  
Fuel with combustion = black smoke at exhaust.
If you didn't smoke bad when you started up cold you had to have good compression.  If you had good compression one cylinder would not keep it from running.  
With out using starting fluid check exhaust for color.  Make sure battery are charged and engine turning over fast.  You can do this after they all go home.
Jack

[Lin]

I can't give good mechanical advice here, but I can offer an analysis of the general situation.  First, if you drove the bus there, and it started up after the filter changes, it should start now too.  Second, even if you can get it to start, you now know through the investigation the shop has done (assuming appropriate skill and ethics) that the engine has serious problems and is not likely one you want to depend on.  Hence, it seems reasonable to start looking for long term solutions.  I would guess that their shop rebuild would be very expensive, so the preference would be to find another engine from a reasonably trustworthy source.  You could have it towed to another facility that might be more reasonable or less of an unknown, but if you can get it started you could try to drive it there.  If you don't make it, you will have at least saved something on the towing.  Getting a different bus, as you mention, is also an option but is likely to cost more and also come with its own unknowns.

This is one of the great nightmares of owning coach.  In the recent past there have been several that have found themselves in a similar fix and had to make financially painful choices just to get moving again.  I hope that you can at least get it started, so you can have whatever added options that brings, but I doubt it is the final solution.

[bevans6]

I'm just going to offer another thought on the "it started, it won't start now, let's blame the shop" idea.  An engine will pick it's own time to break.  I've had engines break between race sessions, I've had them break cranking to get oil pressure, they break when they break.  I am totally not going to be surprised if something broke when they tried to start it the first time after they primed it.  It just happens sometimes, and people who say "it was running when it came it, it has to run now" just don't understand engines and their odd odd ways.  They can just break sometimes.

It also sounds to me like the "two stroke guy" is pretty much on the ball.   This is not an obvious problem and I'm not leaping on the "blame the shop" pile.  Not yet, anyway...

Brian