MC5

[Gary '79 5C]

Fred,
I am sure the bracket makes all the difference in the world, otherwise you feel like balancing a bowling ball on a pin, with just a hyd jack. I was looking that I might be able to safely pull the DB, but getting it back in would be a different story.

BW,
I have spoken to a maint mgr for NJTransit, looking for units which they replaced. Not too fruitful as of yet. My rollup door is close to one side of the building but I believe I could make great use of the lifts.

For now it is a pair of 20T hyd jacks. I hope not to rebuild that DB, again, in my life time !!

[artvonne]

I am sure the bracket makes all the difference in the world

  Assuming the bracket bolts to that front cover, a piece of wide bar stock with a post welded to the bottom could fit a floor jack saddle hole.

[artvonne]

  Soooooo, I looked at a Bus today. Then I drove home mad. Cooled off on the way though...Thankfully I didnt let my anger boil over while I was talking to the seller. The guys know nothing about a Bus other than it has wheels and some kind of big engine.

  The Ad said it had brand new batteries. Was told it ran recently, etc...

  Soooooo, I go look at the darn thing...no batteries, they have no charger, no banana. I would have brought batteries and jumper cables if I knew it didnt have any, they were appologetic, thought someone stole them....Feels like a wild goose chase. Well I was there, so I might as well look.

  The good:

      MCI 5B. Its virtually all original, has all its original windows, original interior walls, original road AC, original Bus heat, everything appears intact and in good condition. Motor is very clean and looks like newish gaskets (not washed, but fresh assembled clean), engine compartment is clean, only real filth is some gook around the rear pulley, ground is clean where its sat for at least a year, radiators look solid, no rot in them and thelouvers are intact. no rust anywhere I can see, empty battery box looks solid. Has a panel in right rear behind cargo bay with a speedometer, it reads 75,000 miles?? Bays are clean, no visable rust anywhere, wood floor looked solid, doors are solid. Bus is straight, no warpage to outside walls, no sags, no sound of rust falling when banging side....I was getting steamed over the no battery/no way to start it thing so I stopped looking so much after a while...but while I was getting mad I opened the rear bay and saw an 8KW Isuzu 3 cyl diesel generator that looks newish. Big deal. I slamed the bay closed.

  The bad:

      Tires weather checked, muffler looks rusty, no tail pipe, wont run so cant tell anything about engine, air system, brakes, steering, xlutch, nothing. Belts are slipped off alternator, why I dont know, they dont know, assume its fried but it does spin. Air intake hose has a screwdriver stuck under lip like someone was trying to get it back on, but quit. The guys dont know anything about that either. Door control handle wont work door, door wont pull shut..guy said its air operated? Guess he knows something? I didnt know the door worked on air in an MCI, only know mechanical GMC doors. It has a band bus-bunk job-crapola interior with two roof airs and a sink. Just a sink. No crapper, tub, shower, frigde, or stove, just bunks and a couch and a sink, with button tufted cieling. cracked drivers side windshield. Well, it is 36 years old....

  The Ugly:

    Call me crazy but I like it. But he wants $5K and I think thats kind of nuts. I think he'll come down, but I dont want to be insulting either (even though im still miffed over the batteries). Im not afraid of working on it, reconverting it to what I want, I want to actually, and I really like that its heating and AC are all original . I just dont want to start off feeling burned from the start. I figure if I yank out the engine, pull the heads and check it over, new gaskets, seals, fix what it needs, yada yada, I wont have a lot into it and ill have a good reliable driver. My original thinking was if I saw it run and could drive it, to get it so I could safely drive it home. That would have required multiple trips, time, many unknowns, lots of risks, etc... Im thinking just having it towed/hauled would be best choice.

  Sooo, whats an MCI-5 worth in cant start it up condition, with a newish (700 hrs) 8KW Isuzu 3 banger 1800 rpm liquid cooled genny?? Maybe with some batteries and a lil tinklering she'll take right off....Okay, tell me im nuts.

   

[RJ]

Paul -

You're nuts.

But who in this hobby isn't?

Hmmm. . . 8KW diesel genset? 

Call Dick Wright @ Wrico (541-744-4333 in OR) and see what he says it's worth.

You may be able to buy the genset and get the bus for free!

A couple of Group 31's from Sam's Club should get it started - remember, it's wired for 24 volts.

Might be worth a second look?  More calmly this time?

MCIs have an air-operated door lock that comes on when the manual handle over-centers to close the door.  The mechanical portion is virtually identical to GMC's, has a turn-buckle adjustment up under the dash on the passsenger side.  Little red knob on the end of a handle on the bottom of the dash by the driver's right knee controls the air lock.  When operating, claw grabs door and pulls it tight to coach body.  Mucho wind noise around door if air lock not engaged.  Should have a plunger under the driver's side windshield, slightly below and to the left of the wiper arm, to open the door from outside.

Decisions, decisions.

FWIW & HTH. . .

[DMoedave]

if he wants to sell it have him get the batteries. I have seen a lot of tough running buses with the screwdriver in the intake hose. I think its so they can squirt ether to start. Might be a 5K bus if it runs and drives. sounds like its not selling soon with no batteries. good luck.

[bevans6]

FWIW I think it's probably worth about what the gennie is worth, couple - three grand maybe.  I tell people who ask me to restore cars that if you get the car for free, you'll spend twice what it's worth building it.  Same thing here.  You'll need to get it running and driving to be able to assess it.  That's your initial investment.  After that you need to keep building.  For me, at this level the price of the  bus is almost irrelevant.  Your decision has to be what else do I have to spend?  In the greater scheme of things with bus conversions and actually using a bus conversion, $5K vs $3K to buy the actual bus is almost in the noise.  I spent more than the difference in fuel on my first long trip.

The MC5B, stock (mine is modified) has an air cylinder that puts tension on the alternator belts.  Should be four belts.  If the engine is run for a while with no air pressure, I can see where the belts might come off.

Brian

[Barn Owl]

As long as you keep in mind that it will cost more to convert that bus than you can buy one for already done. Last year we saw several nicely converted MC5s for 5 to 10k. Check out the archives. They pop-up, several a year.

[artvonne]

   If it was completely out of air from sitting, and couldnt build air due to some defect, how long would it run before it threw the alt belts?

  If the door is mechanical with an air lock, then something is obviously disconnected because the door control does nothing and the door swings free.

  I could assume someone removed something in an attempt to make a repair, the dash panel is pulled off and set aside. Could disconnecting the door lock air lines cause a large enough air leak the compressor couldnt build pressure?

  If I go back... where is the best place to apply air to the system so I can check/plug leaks? It does look like a good generator with a free Bus deal.

   Is there a battery switch/disconnect? I didnt see anything in the battery bay, but I didnt look for a switch, I was staring at the missing batteries.

   Is there anywhere to find a service/operator manual? Ive looked online and came up empty handed. I found lots of stuff for GMC's but nothing for MCI's.

[trucktramp]

Check out http://www.coachinfo.com/Manuals/Coach/MCI/MCI.html
They have manuals for most bus makes.  They are on CD though.  I have a hard copy for a 5A and it is pretty good.  It's a copy and the pics are not very clear.  Maybe the digital version is better.

[buswarrior]

Hard to assess a coach when you don't know what you are looking at.

Any busnuts nearby that can come and help?

Yes, anything in the air system that is disconnected will defeat the compressor. A hole the size of a primary pencil is all you need to defeat it, never mind a loosened off line.

Alternator will throw belts really easily, especially if the alternator was installed slightly off and the engine was revved up with no air pressure. And especially for sure, if they have bypassed the air pressure inhibit, and there was a load applied to the alternator with no pressure on the belts.
However, under the circumstances, be very suspicious.
It is a good sign that it spins.

As long as the door closes properly, hinges are there and straight, there are busnuts that disconnect it from the dash handle, install their own latching, and just leave the air lock to pull it tight for driving.

Speedo down the back will be a tachograph, irrelevant mileage information.

Don't go helping the seller by finding things right with the coach. They don't care, neither do you.
My bet is they have little to nothing in the coach, otherwise they'd be more motivated.

Don't worry about insulting anyone, that's not how salespeople are wired, that's how gullible future bankrupt busnuts are wired.  

As it sits, it is worth scrap money, with a used generator of unknown background in the bay for ballast, minus towing costs to the scrap yard.

You may have stumbled on busnut gold!

Who lives near art???

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[bevans6]

The battery disconnect switch switches plus 24 volts, and is located at the front corner of the forward luggage bay on the passenger side.  Open the bay door, make sure it won't fall down and decapitate you, and stick your head in and look forward.

If for some  reason the alternator got turned on (it's field coil is controlled by an air pressure switch so that it should not be charging until the air pressure is up and the belts are tight) while the belts are loose, the belts will burn off in about a minute.  they have to be really tight to transfer enough power to the alternator to supply the initial current rush to charge the batteries after a cold start.

Brian

[artvonne]

Hard to assess a coach when you don't know what you are looking at.

Yes, anything in the air system that is disconnected will defeat the compressor. A hole the size of a primary pencil is all you need to defeat it, never mind a loosened off line.

  Thats what I was thinking. I doubt they saw it raise, its just another "story".


[/quote]Alternator will throw belts really easily, especially if they have bypassed the air pressure inhibit, and there was a load applied to the alternator with no pressure on the belts.
It is a good sign that it spins.[/quote]

  Is there any top access through the floor on these Buses? Looks pretty tight back in there. Where is the inhibit switch?

[/quote]As long as the door closes properly, hinges are there and straight, there are busnuts that disconnect it from the dash handle, install their own latching, and just leave the air lock to pull it tight for driving. [/quote]

  Door swings fine and has a dead bolt lock. Maybe thats the way they wanted it...

[/quote] Speedo down the back will be a tachograph, irrelevant mileage information.[/quote]

  Thought something like that. Mileage means nothing on a 36 year old vehicle. Less is usually worse than more.

[/quote]Don't go helping the seller by finding things right with the coach. They don't care, neither do you.
My bet is they have little to nothing in the coach, otherwise they'd be more motivated.[/quote]

  I never help a seller running a car lot. A private guy who is honest but in way over his head, yes, ive been known to help and not take advantage. But anyone selling cars has no business not knowing how to figure stuff like this out, or hiring someone who does.


[/quote]As it sits, it is worth scrap money, with a used generator of unknown background in the bay for ballast, minus towing costs to the scrap yard.[/quote]

  Wrico didnt want to comment much on a Genny they didnt build, said $200 plus, gotta see it run, make juice, thats about how I looked at it.

[/quote]You may have stumbled on busnut gold![/quote]

  Or a turd in a candy wrapper?  The guy just called...appologised, wanted to work a deal...I made an offer...hes gotta ask  "the BOSS". ticktickticktick...............

[/quote]happy coaching!
buswarrior [/quote]

  Thank you, and everyone here as well, it really means a lot. And I really do mean that.

[artvonne]

If for some  reason the alternator got turned on (it's field coil is controlled by an air pressure switch so that it should not be charging until the air pressure is up and the belts are tight) while the belts are loose, the belts will burn off in about a minute.  they have to be really tight to transfer enough power to the alternator to supply the initial current rush to charge the batteries after a cold start.

Brian

  The belts look fine, just not on the pulleys. Thanks again, the information is painting a much clearer picture of a major air leak.

  May I assume the 4 belts are sold in a matched set???   Or can O'rielly give me 4 that will work?

[bevans6]

Ideally a matched set of belts from Luke or another supplier, but I've used four belts off the shelf before, in a pinch.  The floor access is in the middle of the floor at the back of the bus, two panels, one actually in the  floor, the other in the shelf across the back.  About a foot square or so.  I have no idea what an "inhibit switch" is so I can't help you there.

Brian

[lostagain]

Isuzu is a really good engine. I have an Isuzu powered back up generator at home.

I like MC5s myself, but even if you could get it cheap: $2 or 3000, are you sure you want to spend untold amount of time and money building a conversion, when you could buy one already converted?

JC