Cost of Electricity

luvrbus · October 18, 2021, 09:43:18 AM

Sonja saves all our power bills cleaning out the file cabinet just for the hella of it I totaled all the bills over 18 years here.Understand I live where the AC runs almost 6 months out of a year,with my shop, well, house and people visiting pugged in over a 18 year span I have paid Mohave Co-op $61,814.56 damn that is a lot of money for electricity lol not really bus related but a lot of buses do come here and are plugged in

Melbo · October 18, 2021, 10:09:42 AM

Not too bad. I have to check a guy's set up that runs about 600 a month year round. You averaged less than 300. He is in a single family house and pays that. I told him that it seems like is renting his house from the power company but we would check it out.

Melbo

luvrbus · October 18, 2021, 10:33:34 AM

Quote from: Melbo on October 18, 2021, 10:09:42 AM
Not too bad. I have to check a guy's set up that runs about 600 a month year round. You averaged less than 300. He is in a single family house and pays that. I told him that it seems like is renting his house from the power company but we would check it out.

Melbo

As long as they make aluminum cans for me to pickup It will be alright Mel

belfert · October 18, 2021, 11:48:58 AM

That doesn't seem terrible for Arizona. My former co-worker who moved to Phoenix was complaining about how he was averaging $300 a month for electricity for his modest suburban house. It was two to three times as much as he was paying in a Minneapolis suburb.

windtrader · October 18, 2021, 12:02:38 PM

Solar panels!! You might even get them to pay you. I'm in net zero, so can only zero bill. LOL

luvrbus · October 18, 2021, 12:08:50 PM

Quote from: windtrader on October 18, 2021, 12:02:38 PM
Solar panels!! You might even get them to pay you. I'm in net zero, so can only zero bill. LOL

If you tie solar into the grid most suppliers here charge a fee like SaltRiver charges $60.00 a month but will buy the surplus power makes not 1 bit of sense to me.A long time friend of mine that owns Northern AZ Sun and Wind is pricing me a 4000 killowatt per month systems for Globe and it is not going to be cheap

windtrader · October 18, 2021, 12:23:59 PM

Glad to hear some power companies buy net from consumers. Naturally, each install needs to sort out the financial aspects. There is a real cost for you to send the power you generate onto the grid, you are using their infrastructure. It is the distribution assets that you utilize, not generation. Then there is the rate at which they will buy. Hopefully, more during the day and less at night.

I think PGE provides credit at retail but limits purchase to zero your balance. SMUD is quite reasonable so there aren't many solar panels around, even with the credits, I think the calculators never show full cost recovery, so why bother when cheaper to buy off the grid.

lvmci · October 18, 2021, 04:29:33 PM

Here in Southern Nevada, they keep offering me free install of solar. My best friend had it installed, the free solar roof panels, cost him $18,000, lvmci...

Dave5Cs · October 18, 2021, 04:56:53 PM

Clifford that only 286.00 a month. We pay $135.00 a month in the bus when not on solar and on the pole.
Time to put a toll both at your back :^gate eh...

Lin · October 18, 2021, 05:09:33 PM

Since I will need a new roof soon and was interested in solar, I have been in the process of getting a Tesla solar roof. I really like the concept, and Tesla has consistently offered a better deal than other solar companies when the cost of the roof is included. The problem that may stop me from proceeding is that their customer service seems to be sub standard. I have tried several times to get answers to some questions regarding the battery backup Powerwall, and they have completely failed to respond. The customer relations people I talk to on the phone really try but lack the necessary knowledge. They have no way of connecting me to an engineer. They never call back probably because they can not find the information themselves.

windtrader · October 18, 2021, 09:09:11 PM

Lin,

so solar panels and Powerwall are two different technologies and independent of each other. The new generation of solar panels that serve as the actual roof look nice but expensive. It's not new, other countries have been using them.

The Powerwall is a battery storage system. If you need the power off-grid then you need on-premise energy storage but it is expensive when compared to just pushing the solar energy output into the grid via a grid-tied system. The other factor why the lack of response from Tesla may be a change in battery technology. I know Tesla is rolling out better, new batteries and the slow transition and production ramp up is slowing up the release of the electric semi-truck as well as the Y (i think).

luvrbus · October 19, 2021, 06:52:28 AM

Lin that is a joint venture with Panasonic could be they need to get answers from Panasonic on the system and Panasonic engineers are tight lip when you ask 1 a question I found that out

Lin · October 19, 2021, 11:30:38 AM

Windtrader. Sorry if I was unclear. I understand that the Powerwall is just the battery backup, and I originally was not going to get it. But aside from it being useful during a power outage by supplying electricity for a day or so, it can be used to self power the house during peak usage times and save by not paying those higher rates. Those hours here are from 4-9, so much of it will not have sunlight.

We do not have many power failures here, but who knows what the future will bring. California is currently in the process of shutting down a nuclear plant and several natural gas facilities that provide 10-15% of the states power, so loss of power may become more frequent. Tesla says that 2 Powerwalls will back up everything, but I don not want to pay for that (about $10,000 each). They say one Powerwall will at least back up all 120v circuits. I have asked them if the one Powerwall can also back up my 240v heat/AC circuit and maybe the one for the 240v induction cooktop (I realize that backing up the cooktop would not mean it could be used to cook a Thanksgiving dinner for 20 people. I just want to be able to turn one burner on if needed). The problem is that I have gotten both positive and negative answers to the same question. I have even been sent Tesla documents that contradict each other on this question.

I have spoken to numerous customer service people but, even though they try their best, they do not really know what they are talking about. And I simply can not get connected to someone or a call back from someone who does. They have already requested a permit for the project with my county. At this point, I figure I will just wait until they contact me to schedule the work. Then I will refuse to go ahead with it until they tell me what I need to know. Based on how I am feeling that day, I will decide if I want to proceed.

My biggest concern is that if customer service it so bad now, how much worse will it be when they actually have my money. By the way, I have gotten several estimates for solar aside from this one. One was from a national company and the other from a local solar contractor. Tesla beats them both.

Clifford, That may be the case, but you'd think that someone at Tesla should be able to answer this relatively simple question. It seems hard for me to believe that this is the first time it has come up.

windtrader · October 19, 2021, 12:58:59 PM

Interesting approach, arbitrage the time of day electric rates. Buy it cheap, store it, then consume at higher rates. Seems like it would take a very long time to make up the sunk cost getting it going. Check Generac stock these days. everyone wants a generator when power goes off. Every day more and more this country is starting to take on 3rd world conditions. Oh well. Good luck on the Powerwall. Just make sure you are not stuck or out costs until you are totally satisfied with the answers should they arrive.

Lin · October 19, 2021, 01:19:08 PM

Yes your right. It is not worth it for the payback alone, but it does offset the costs a bit and we would have the power failure backup. We are an all electric house and I expect that rates will continue to increase.

As I understand it, California is shutting down various generators in an effort to be greener. However, since the state is going to be left with inadequate production, they are looking to contract huge amounts of electricity from the out-of-state grid. The greenhouse gas footprint of those generators will be at least as bad as the local ones they are shutting down, maybe worse. But of course, our leaders surely know what they are doing, right?