Canadian Border

chessie4905 · February 04, 2021, 10:43:02 AM

no, that is the benefit-curse of inflation.

chessie4905 · February 04, 2021, 10:43:26 AM

no, that is the benefit-curse of inflation.

richard5933 · February 04, 2021, 11:02:28 AM

Quote from: robertglines1 on February 04, 2021, 10:30:51 AM
1964 I made 1.25$ per hr. 19Cent gas.. 39 cent milk. new car or truck 1400$$ Made close to 35$ plus benefits when I retired in 2008. Gas was near $4 and new Car/truck were in 40,000 range. When it comes down to it did I really gain anything?

Yes - you gained quite a bit. That $1.25/hour you earned in 1964 was worth $8.68/hour in 2008 dollars. So, if you left in 2008 earning $35 + benefits you more than tripled your actual earnings after adjusting for inflation. I'd say that's a gain.

As for inflation as it relates to consumer goods? That all depends on being able to compare apples to apples and I'm not sure you can do that with cars. A normal car in 1964 didn't include much in the way of bells and whistles, but in 2008 it would have been difficult to find one being sold the same way to get a fair comparison.

A gallon of milk averaged $0.93 in 1964. If that increased with inflation it would have cost $6.46 in 2008, but it was only averaging $3.82/gallon. Again, your wages climbed more than inflation, but the cost of milk less. This would again seem like you've gained.

On the flip side, some things today are far cheaper than they were in 1964 dollars if calculated as a percentage of take-home pay. Color televisions would be just one example - they are much cheaper today. Another gain?

Jim Blackwood · February 04, 2021, 01:56:39 PM

Plus it put you in a higher tax bracket so Uncle Sammy gained too! Everybody wins!

Jim

richard5933 · February 04, 2021, 02:20:11 PM

Quote from: Jim Blackwood on February 04, 2021, 01:56:39 PM
Plus it put you in a higher tax bracket so Uncle Sammy gained too! Everybody wins!

Jim

Thank you for playing, but not so quick.

The top federal tax rate in 1964 was 77% and in 2021 the top tax rate is only 37%. If you are towards the lower end of the spectrum you still do better as far as tax rate now vs. then since the bottom tax rate in 1964 was 16% and today it's only 10%.

Family food budgets as a percentage of family income have dropped nearly in half since the 60s as well - families were spending 17.5% of their income to feed themselves in 1960 compared to less than 10% in recent years.

Of course, back in 1964 most Americans were buying much less consumer goods overall. There was far less to spend on - no cable, no internet, no cell phones, etc. Maybe this is why it feels like we can't get ahead nowadays as compared to back then. Eliminate all the new things we spend money on, and things compare much better.

Compare the closet space in a house built in 1964 with one built today - the amount of space being built into homes to store all the needless crap we buy is astounding compared to back then. Hell, around here one of the fastest growing businesses seems to be self-storage facilities so that people will have a place to put all the new crap they bring home.

I think in this regard we're our own worst enemy. If people's purchasing habits stayed the same from 1964 till today, we'd all think we were wealthy in comparison.

I'm not trying to say that everything is peaches and cream today. Obviously there are lots of problems, especially with the covid-related job losses and suffering. Just trying to point out that all is not as bad as if feels sometimes, and it can sometimes feel pretty bad.

luvrbus · February 04, 2021, 03:22:14 PM

We been at a low interest rate for years now trying to keep the economy on track,that is not going to last forever I remember Jimmy Carters 21 % interest rates,milk would be 8 dollars a gal but it has always been subsidized by the government a lot diary's go broke because the farmer gets peanut for milk leaving his farm

chessie4905 · February 04, 2021, 03:24:00 PM

You are forgetting all the rest of the taxes and fees.

richard5933 · February 04, 2021, 05:25:00 PM

Quote from: chessie4905 on February 04, 2021, 03:24:00 PM
You are forgetting all the rest of the taxes and fees.

Fees? You mean the things that get increased when politicians don't have the courage to tell you that they are going to raise your taxes?

chessie4905 · February 05, 2021, 04:22:44 AM

just announced this morning that state park fees are rising " due to Covid".
Excellent excuse for all tax and fee increases going forward.🤑

luvrbus · February 05, 2021, 04:33:10 AM

Any of you guys remember when you paid your Social Security tax up to $3000.00 on wages and then it stopped and the rate was like 3%

richard5933 · February 05, 2021, 08:12:19 AM

Quote from: luvrbus on February 05, 2021, 04:33:10 AM
Any of you guys remember when you paid your Social Security tax up to $3000.00 on wages and then it stopped and the rate was like 3%

Here's a full breakdown of the social security tax rates over the years: http://www.milefoot.com/math/businessmath/taxes/fica.htm

dtcerrato · February 05, 2021, 08:26:57 AM

Now that's an evolution of numbers! Watch those newest numbers change after we finish paying off what Corona has done although haven't seen a hike on the beer or the lime yet...

ktmossman · February 05, 2021, 09:17:25 AM

Of course, the other huge factor is the "corporate taxes" that the consumer pays. Last estimate I saw from a reliable source was that 18-22% of the retail price of consumer goods was taxes that the corporations collect and pass on to the govt. Whenever a politician talks about taxing corporations instead of individuals, they are playing a shell game. It still comes out of your wallet.

richard5933 · February 05, 2021, 09:27:27 AM

Quote from: ktmossman on February 05, 2021, 09:17:25 AM
Of course, the other huge factor is the "corporate taxes" that the consumer pays. Last estimate I saw from a reliable source was that 18-22% of the retail price of consumer goods was taxes that the corporations collect and pass on to the govt. Whenever a politician talks about taxing corporations instead of individuals, they are playing a shell game. It still comes out of your wallet.

Actually, the share of the tax burden carried by corporations in the US has dropped precipitously in the past few decades, leaving you and I to pick up the slack. Meanwhile the amount of compensation that the top few people in corporations receive has skyrocketed.

In 1952 corporate taxes accounted for 32% of federal revenue, but in 2013 it had dropped down to only 10%. I assume that in recent years it's dropped even further. Add to that the number of corporations receiving handouts from cities and states to entice them to relocate and the numbers get even worse for all of us having to carry the burden.

Here's some more information if anyone is interested in reading about how things have shifted over the years: https://americansfortaxfairness.org/tax-fairness-briefing-booklet/fact-sheet-corporate-tax-rates/

Don't get me wrong - I'm all in favor of corporations making a decent profit and flourishing. I just don't want them to do so at the expense of those of us left to pay the bills after they've worked their magic.

Jim Blackwood · February 05, 2021, 09:43:45 AM

Quote from: richard5933 on February 04, 2021, 02:20:11 PM

Compare the closet space in a house built in 1964 with one built today - the amount of space being built into homes to store all the needless crap we buy is astounding compared to back then. Hell, around here one of the fastest growing businesses seems to be self-storage facilities so that people will have a place to put all the new crap they bring home.

Wow, you are so right! I had to put up another whole building just to store my tools and stuff, and there isn't even enough spare room inside for the bus. Not sure I'd feel any richer if I didn't have all that though, since I'd have to pay someone else to work on stuff. Which means I'd have to get a job to pay them. Which means I wouldn't have free time anymore. Not sure that would make me feel richer.

Jim