Electric Buses in California

[Dave5Cs]

That is true about the Federal land and state land but to tell the truth 80 percent was State lands in the Camp Fire don't know about the Malibu fire or the Wooley fire.

Actually P.G. & E. Is suppose to clear any trees that are close to their lines and had failed on that note but they also admit to sending down the line through Paradise what is called a reverse power surge through the lines to test for any problems and they sparked right over the forests in that town and is under investigation by both the State and PG&E. Wouldn't be the first time that happened.
It is just that everything for a nasty fire was in place. We had many years of Drought as well as over 2 million tree killed from Bark Beattle infestation ( put that into google and see the comparisons over a two year period).
Which brings up the problems of trying to get all the dead trees out which was just overwhelming to clear out over 100's of miles in the sierras and the Butt county mountains.

Geoff, true that the Sierra Club has made a mess of deforestation by getting laws passed that you can not take out downed trees anymore. Their thinking was it disturbed the natural habitat, which to a point is true but they also didn't take into account the above conditions that were not happening when the law was passed. And let me tell you a lot of us fought it hard back then but northern California does not have as much control of the airwaves as southern California has.

But Climate change does have a lot to do with it also weather you believe what well "he who shall not be named" or not. Less water in the ground, a lot hotter summers in the west, dryer winters. They are saying now that fresh water supplies are getting more salt in them now higher up our rivers.

And they do actually have a testiing facility in Santa Barbara California that can chage salt water into fresh water but it is very labor some.


And as far as Rush, Seriously we threw him out of California many years ago for his bigotry and misinformation. You can read that on line if you look him up in Sacramento union newpaper and SF radio KFBK.

[richard5933]

Richard, one of the core functions of any level of government is roads.
Parks are set aside for our enjoyment but passenger rail ought to be in the private sector.
I'm talking about longer distance not localized commuter type to avoid misunderstanding.
Private airlines make money and say what you want but it's a proven model that the free market determined to be the preferred mode of cross country travel.
Yes cars and buses make up the balance.

I don't think we're all that far apart on these things, but I have to make a couple of corrections...

Can't find roads anywhere in the Constitution. For a few early years in Milwaukee they tried to have the roads privately built/run. It was called the plank road system (almost all the diagonal roads were plank roads at one time) - ended up a total failure that the government had to take over.

Private airlines do make money. Lots of money. Then why is it that our tax dollars are used to support the airports? If it's all about profit, then have the profit-making companies carry the full cost of the airports and not the general public. I don't fly - that's why we have a bus. Why should my tax money go to support an airport? Answer - because we're all better off when the airports function and people can come and go. Heck, Milwaukee's airport is a prime example of a government run piece of infrastructure that works. Contrast that with the privatized parking spots, bridges, and roads in Illinois, where all the money spent goes to shareholders instead of back into the infrastructure.

The high-speed train infrastructure would ideally go coast-to-coast. Just like the highways were built with federal dollars and then private companies run trucking across them, the high-speed train system could go that route once the infrastructure is in place and running. Also like using tax dollars to build airports so that private airlines can operate. Could you imagine if every trucking company had to build their own roads? Or every airline an airport? Build the train lines, then lease them out to private carriers to operate the trains. These public/private enterprises have operated in many places like this with success.

[CrabbyMilton]

Folks, I'm as much to blame for taking the original topic too far.
I propose taking it over to the off topic section.
It's a great debate and civilized as well.
What do you say folks?

[richard5933]

Agreed. We can pick it up in the off-topics area at a latter time if anyone wants.

[edvanland]

What the heck does these last comments have to do with electric busses. Why was this tread highjacked. Disgusting the way it has happened. Mu 2 cents worth.

[Dave5Cs]

Ed we all got off topic gee like that never happens around here LOL. So CM moved it over to off topic. But hey feel free to get it back to Electric Buses.

[edvanland]

Thanks Dave I have been accused of being off topic or is that kilter more than once. Hope to see you guys in Quartzsite we will be camping up off La Parosa ( miss spelled) road with our Pahrump 4 wheel drive group, course we will be down to see all of our bus people also.

[Iceni John]

China is already doing it:  https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/dec/12/silence-shenzhen-world-first-electric-bus-fleet

John

[TomC]

San Francisco already has electric buses-course with the ugly overhead wires to feed the buses, and only on certain routes.
Strange how everyone thinks electric is the answer. When it takes a lot of energy and chemicals just to make the batteries. Let alone the energy to charge them. Then having to replace them periodically and recycling the batteries. Having induction charging at every (or so) bus stop is a good answer-much like Disneyland's submarines recharge by induction when at dock. Personally-I think Diesel is just fine. The tree huggers are not going to admit it, but Diesels are going to be around for many, many more years. And so far we don't know when the oil supply will run out-so far now it is well beyond 100 years away. Good Luck, TomC

[CrabbyMilton]

Exactly Tom. There's no way around it but unless you go 100% nuclear, you will use fossil fuels such as coal and others to power these electric buses.
Besides, these new diesel powered buses are so clean and quiet it's just amazing.
Gone are the days of steam locomotive type smoke coming from the exhaust pipe.

[eagle19952]

I just make the observation since California is always running to the feds to solve their problems.

Oh ? Other than disaster relief (that all states enjoy) what does California ask of the Federal gubbamint ?

[Jeremy]

Exactly Tom. There's no way around it but unless you go 100% nuclear, you will use fossil fuels such as coal and others to power these electric buses.

Not really:...



https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/06/uk-renewable-energy-capacity-surpasses-fossil-fuels-for-first-time

This graph doesn't show the contribution of nuclear of course, but it nonetheless does illustrate that the point that you shouldn't swallow the idea that something is impossible just because a politician tells you so.

Jeremy

[chessie4905]

Gas prices in UK. and Japan are close to $5.00 or higher per gallon. A lot of that money subsidizes rail use. How long will rv's or conversions be around at that price.

[Jeremy]

A lot of that money subsidizes rail use. How long will rv's or conversions be around at that price.

Where are you getting that from? Rail services here are run by private companies and have nothing to do with taxes on road fuel

Regarding RVs - why should they suddenly start to disappear? The last fuel crisis (shortages / rapid price inflation) was 40 years ago (1979) and since then the supply has been stable and price changes gradual. Fuel prices right now are really quite low comparatively-speaking, even ignoring the effect of inflation - petrol is currently around 125p per litre at the moment compared to almost 150p per litre back in 2012-13

On the subject of private bus-into-motorhome conversions incidentally - such things don't really exist in the UK other than in the hands of a few oddballs like me - there are plenty of commercial bus conversions around of one sort or another though

Jeremy

[chessie4905]

79? We had soaring prices in early 2000's  Just about killed bus conversions. Just now starting to recover. And the recessions didn't help either. Even if the rail services are privately run, the high price of fuel encourage their use. And we're talking about a smaller area than the US. For rail service to be profitable here it has to serve thousands of passengers in a limited area. Like NE or  high density areas in California.
One artical mentioned that early on Japan went with rail service because they were concerned a build up of airlines might not be viewed upon well after WWII. Could have been suggested by our military, during occupation right after the end of war, although that is just speculation.