Webasto Hook-up

[Tikvah]

I'm at the point of working out my heating system.  All the coach stuff is gone (except the driver heat).

I've considered a house furnace.  I've considered using my on-demand water heater with some kind of exchanger.  I've considered just a free-standing electric with my vent-free gas heater.  I've considered lots of things.  Now I'm looking at a used Webasto with pump on this board and I like the idea because that's what the nice buses have.  But I don't know how you guys run them.  Can anyone describe your system, or better yet, have a schematic?  I can get an water-to-air exchanger and put a fan behind it with duct work.  But, is that best.  What else?  I really don't know what  I need

Dave

[Ed Hackenbruch]

Dave, it depends on how much and where you are going to use your bus and how complicated or simple you want it to be.  The PO of our bus put in 2 Olympian Wave propane heaters and one electric toe kick heater.  They fulltimed for 8 years and then just left for the winters, ( they lived in Missouri), the other 12 years that they had the bus. Conversion was done in 83 and i don't think that they did much insulation as they did not plan to spend any time in cold climates. Also at that time there wasn't a lot of options on types of insulation like there is now days. We are in our 10th year of fulltiming and also avoid the cold as much as possible. We did add a cube heater and use that and the toe kick if we are plugged in. If not or if it is colder out we use the propane heaters.  Our rule of thumb is if we see frost we have been there too long and head south.     The problem i see with diesel or propane furnaces is the initial cost, the cost of running them, the cost of repairing them, and the space that they take up. I am retired and poor so i like to keep it simple and as cheap as i can, when i can, so that i can have, and spend the money, on things that i don't want to scrimp on.

[Jeremy]

There are lots of Webasto schematics available if you do some Googling - here's an example (not saying this necessarily appropriate for you, just as an illustration):



Jeremy

[Tikvah]

We don't know yet where we will be.  But I'm sure we will be in a colder climate than hot.  I can't take heat and sun at all.  Plus most of our family/friends are northern Michigan and northern Vermont.  Plus a son in North Dakota.
I would prefer never to go south, but I'm afraid of freezing pipes or worse.


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[Ed Hackenbruch]

 In that case the better your bus is insulated the less of a system you will need to heat it.  An Olympian Wave 8 uses 1/3 lb. of propane an hour....4.2 lbs of propane to a gallon, i just saw propane for $2.50 a gallon, you could run that heater for 12 hours on one gallon.  Wabasto, diesel at $4 a gallon, how many hours can you run on a gallon?  Guess i will google it and see. We have the Olympian 3, (1/8 lb. an hour) & 6, and they can roast us out after awhile.

[Ed Hackenbruch]

Doing a quick look i found that they use .4 gallons per hour to run. so for the same 12 hours you would use 4.8 gallons of diesel. Almost $20 for diesel compared to $2.50 for the propane,... and no battery usage for the propane heater either!  And nothing to break. 

[Tikvah]

Ed, is that a ventless gas heater?


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[belfert]

You're comparing apples to oranges here.  The Olympian Wave 8 is 8,000 BTU.  A Webasto is 40,000 to 80,000 BTU depending on model.  Most of the time the Webasto isn't going to be running non-stop.

[Ed Hackenbruch]

 Dave, yes. Google Olympian Wave heaters for info.  They make, or used to make 2 different sizes in two different models. I found this out after getting the bus home at the time, (6000 ft. elevation) and could not get them to stay lit. Found out that the PO had bought the cheaper models that won't work above 5000 ft.  They have them that will work up to 12,000 ft.  Guess he figured that he would stay lower than 5,000 ft. so did not need the higher priced ones.  No Belfert, i am comparing $ to $$$. We have a 3000 btu and a 6000 btu unit and they do a good job of heating when we need them, we don't need 40 to 80,000 btu.   I can probably run the propane unit for the rest of my life on just what the cost of the Wabasto is.  Look how many posts there are about problems with them and the cost of repairing them.  Not much to go wrong with the Olympian units, and if they were to totally quit you could buy a new one for less than the control board for the Wabasto. 

[Homegrowndiesel]

Ok Dave You Asked,,, Well, I have taken the advise here to heart. I do use the catalitic heater for emergencies, (aka , When we do not need it for long. The combustion byproducts can easily be dealt with for a short time),  , ,  and they are efficient. The diesel boilers are the $#!% if you are going to be dealing with cold weather for any length of time ( we like snowmobiling and skiing) . The propane ducted heaters work good If the powerpole does not have the juice. if you are plugged into 50 amp service why not use your electric heaters, as you are paying for it. For our use,,, a diesel boiler , a large battery bank, some efficient flat panel heaters, with some fan powered heat exchangers for extreems, or fast heat ups, do it 90 % of the time when we are traveling. When it is sitting ,, drained or plugged in and using powerpole electric heat. Oh yea, watch those diagrams as theysometimes show the expansion tank NOT as the highest spot in the system (BAD) What is a buffer tank?. If I only knew how we were going to use our bus it would have been easier. Oh yea, (from experience), you can Not heat a bus with an RV water heater.

[Ed Hackenbruch]

You wanted and now have a few options here Dave,   Another one that i just saw posted on a different board is some folks in Canada just bought a 5A and she wants to put in a small European wood stove. 

[Tikvah]

The wood stove thing was considered.  I've seen some small pellet heaters that are really cool.. but not our thing. 

Forgive my ignorance, but I don't know what this phrase means "

The diesel boilers are the $#!% if you are going to be dealing with cold weather for any length of time

Is that good or bad?

I'm thinking I might stick with my ventless gas heaters with electric heaters when I have a pole.  My biggest concern is the tanks below.  I might use some kind of blower to move air from the living space above to the rear bay and back.  The bays are not well insulated.

My bus has very good spray foam, but the ventless heaters created a lot of moisture that I don't like.  I'll keep searching.  I even considered a 40,000BTU house furnace with PVC venting through the floor.... what do you think?

[Jeremy]

...some folks in Canada just bought a 5A and she wants to put in a small European wood stove. 

If you're a 'Traveller' (British term for modern-day gypsy types), your vehicle isn't complete if it doesn't have a wood burning stove chimney sticking through the roof!

[Homegrowndiesel]

Sorry Dave, I meant they are good. I would put a proheat in the wet bay, they do not use much electric compared to a home furnace, and the heat will keep the bay warm.

[belfert]

Dave, yes. Google Olympian Wave heaters for info.  They make, or used to make 2 different sizes in two different models. I found this out after getting the bus home at the time, (6000 ft. elevation) and could not get them to stay lit. Found out that the PO had bought the cheaper models that won't work above 5000 ft.  They have them that will work up to 12,000 ft.  Guess he figured that he would stay lower than 5,000 ft. so did not need the higher priced ones.  No Belfert, i am comparing $ to $$$. We have a 3000 btu and a 6000 btu unit and they do a good job of heating when we need them, we don't need 40 to 80,000 btu.   I can probably run the propane unit for the rest of my life on just what the cost of the Wabasto is.  Look how many posts there are about problems with them and the cost of repairing them.  Not much to go wrong with the Olympian units, and if they were to totally quit you could buy a new one for less than the control board for the Wabasto. 

I understand the cost difference in buying the heaters up front.  My post was in reference to the fuel cost comparisons.  Yes, the Webasto may use more fuel per hour at full output, but it also produces 5 to 10 times as many BTUs of heat for that fuel.  

For many busnuts the Wave heater will work just fine.  I won't use ventless heaters in my bus because I have a Mr. Heater Big Buddy and the air starts to stink a little bit after it is in use for a time.