Panning windows?

[ojgetaway32]

Okay, so if you read my last post, you know I need my head examined because I purchased a second bus, a 1994 MCI 102D3.  Can someone or all direct me to a place to get info on panning the windows DIY?  Thanks in advance.

Josh

[usbusin]

Not familiar with the term "panning the windows"?

[bottomacher]

The archives are full of such information.

[Jeremy]

I'd never heard the term either, but found this on Google:

"Metal Panning
When replacing old wood-sash windows on brick buildings, we are often asked to cover the old exterior wood brickmould trim & sloped sills with a metal cap to avoid future painting."

I'm guessing in the context of buses it means covering the whole window with metal, or removing the window and replacing it with metal. And yes, the archive will doubtless have threads about that.

Jeremy

[rcbeam]

Could he mean 'skinning' the windows?

[usbusin]

Sorry for asking.  Next time I'll use the archives.

[Runcutter]

Gary, nothing to be sorry for -- I am not familiar with term either.  I clicked on the topic because I don't know what it means, and I want to learn something.  I suspect it could be "paneling", but it could be a technical term I'm not familiar with.  Given some of the strange emails I receive, because of auto-correct on smartphones, it could be anything from paneling to painting.  In that case, trying to search the archives alone could be fruitless.  Last week, I sent an email to a client about bus scheduling, the auto correct changed one word to "eulogy".  I'm so pleased I caught it before sending the email.   

Since so many questions asked anew have been covered in the archives, this would be a dull, uninformative board if that's all we did -- search the archives.  Current questions are asked to get current advise/experience -- and keep the board vital.  It's great to remind folks that archives exist, to get additional information -- but (in my opinion), every time a new question is asked, or an old question is asked again, we get new answers, new information -- and (most importantly), new participation.

So, please do not just search the archives, please continue to participate here -- ask questions, ask for clarification, post answers -- good and bad.

So, what is "panning", anyway?

Arthur         

[RJ]

So, what is "panning", anyway?   

Looking for gold, like the miners did during the various Gold Rushes back in the 1800s.

Remember your US History?   

[Ed Hackenbruch]

 I carry 2 gold pans with us.

[ojgetaway32]

I am sorry about the lingo.  I was so proud because I was being hip to the vernacular.  Anyway, I want to remove windows and seal them off with metal that can be painted.

Josh

[Runcutter]

Josh, thanks for the clarification (spoken as an old fogey, my "hip" days are far behind me, replaced with occasional hip pain.  I haven't done this, so others will be far more qualified to address the question.  Equally important as to what they did that worked, is what has been done that didn't work.

On here, I've seen photos of projects that involved reskinning the whole bus (Eagle or MCI), and projects that essentially blanked the windows.  One Eagle that appears occasionally was reskinned in fiberglas, to the point where the driver has almost no side vision (shudder).  You have a lot of options, methods, materials, etc.  You mention that you want to use metal -- you do want to pay attention to the corrosion that can arise when dissimilar metals meet (through electrolysis).  I do remember a thread or two that spoke of pre-heating, pre-stressing the metal for large panels.

I will pose a thought.  On our 4107, the previous owner had it professionally converted by a noted bus body/repair shop (Bodyrite, in 1976!).  It looks like they drilled out the rivets on the window panels, and riveted in new solid panels - the kind of panels GMC would have used in construction.  However, they cut in some rectangular RV windows, which spoil the looks/line of the coach.  So, here's the thought and question for you.  How much of the original appearance do you want to keep from the outside?  I wish our 4107 had all the original exterior windows, even if some of them were panneled over on the inside.  What do you want the coach to look like, in the end? 

Arthur

[Tikvah]

You'll find this to be a huge topic, with tons of ideas and opinions.
I just recently completed this project on my 102 A3 and it turned out so well, that it looks factory.

If I had to do it again, I would do it the same way again.

I bought 6061 Aluminum (I think that's the right number) .80 thickness.  I was careful to buy it exactly the size needed from the supplier.

First I welded in some additional cross bracing and framed in for new windows.  Then primed and painted everything that was steel.   I protected the steel from the aluminum with butyl tape, then used Silaprene Sealant everywhere anything overlapped or touched anything. 

Contact Byler Rivets, they have the Silaprene Sealant, and can advise you on the rivets.  I also bought some drill bits from them, that was the best thing I ever did.  A good jobber bit is worth it's weight in gold.
http://bylerrivet.com/

I heated the aluminum from the inside with a roof tar or weed torch.  Very easy to do.  Except the Silaprene Sealant can burn, so I learned just how much heat to use.  This helped stretch the aluminum.

Then I just went back with a 4" grinder with a very thin wheel and cut out the windows.  Turned out very nice. 




Dave

[ojgetaway32]

Arthur:

I want it look smooth sided in the place of windows.  Out of the seven down driver's side, I was thinking of removing windows #3, 4 and 5, front to back and covering the resulting hole.

Tikvah:

That is amazing work, feel like travelling to Wheeling, WV to do it on my 102D3?  I don't even want the value-added window option!

Josh

[dolson]

Josh

I have a '92 102C3 which is prtty much the same as yours as far as the body goes.  I wanted the smooth side look so after I raised the roof I re-skinned the whole bus using 18 guage steel.  I punched it on 4" centers everywhere there were framing members and then welded it to the framing, then ground it smooth, turned out great.  There are some pictures at the link below.

[Jerry32]

I removed the complete window assembly then installed solid insulation in the holes and covered with aluminium painted to match the outside.  I had the shop cut the metal to proper size.