A little heads up for all the code haters

niles500 · December 28, 2010, 02:00:37 AM

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_FIVE_DEAD_MOTEL_FLOL-?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

Perfect example of how codes are developed - 5 young people dead - RIP

rv_safetyman · December 28, 2010, 06:52:15 AM

Really sad story.

We had a similar loss in CO a couple of years ago in a condo. The family had won a stay in the condo in a silent auction at a fund raiser. Bad furnace.

Please remember that CO detectors have a fairly short life span. They should be replaced every five years. The old ones will tell you they are working, but they are not. The detection head has a relatively short life span and fails to detect after a few years. But the button test does not detect the head failure.

Jim

Update: here is the link to the story:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=6376209&tqkw=&tqshow=&page=1

Iceni John · December 28, 2010, 07:54:49 AM

"a car they left running in a garage under their South Florida motel room".
Enough said.

John

Lin · December 28, 2010, 08:36:34 AM

This is a good example. We could pass a law against leaving a car running in an enclosed garage under your motel room, or we could educate people about the dangers of CO. I'm for replacing gym with safety classes. The kids could then go home and educate their parents.

Jeremy · December 28, 2010, 09:22:34 AM

I do think that this is a design issue, not an education issue.

It would be astonishing if these teenagers didn't know that car exhausts produce carbon monoxide, and that carbon monoxide can kill you. What teenager hasn't heard of people committing sucide by enclosing themselves in a garage with a running car? But they - as with any hotel guest - had no reason to equate that knowledge to the 'risk' of sleeping in a hotel room with their car parked in an adjoining garage.

It's easy to be wise after the event, once it has become 'obvious' that the garage wasn't ventillated, and that the connecting door should have been closed - but I think a better reaction to such a tragedy would be to try and prevent such a combination of circumstances from happening in the first place, rather than blaming the victims for their stupidity.

Jeremy

Sean · December 28, 2010, 09:31:21 AM

Quote from: Iceni John on December 28, 2010, 07:54:49 AM
"a car they left running in a garage under their South Florida motel room".
Enough said.

Just to point out, the article did NOT say that the car was placed there or left running by the deceased. It was a hotel -- car might have been left by a different guest. Hard to know from what has been published so far. [Edit: I read an earlier version; I see it now says the car belonged to them.]

Still, this is EXACTLY what codes are for -- so that innocent people are not killed or injured by the stupidity of others (or themselves). A code requiring a CO detector in every hotel room might have saved five lives here, just as codes enacted decades ago requiring smoke detectors in hotel rooms have already saved thousands.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com

edvanland · December 28, 2010, 09:37:26 AM

Thanks to the article about CO detectors in the BCM magazine we purchased new CO detector for Bus and house.I have also told several of my friends about the artice and they are also going to replace theirs.
ED

rv_safetyman · December 28, 2010, 11:00:41 AM

Thanks for the comment on the BCM article. As I researched the information for the article, I was blown away about the age sensitivity of CO detectors. As I mentioned in the article, I had been very careful to have a CO detector that I took between the house and the bus. Through a series of events, it became obvious that the unit did not sound an alarm when the CO (actually a gas from a bad battery) got above acceptable levels.

Our house furnace is now 30 years old and I really worry about CO. I now have two CO detectors in both locations.

Also, I was amazed at the impact of CO on folks who have compromised breathing conditions.

Some of this is a bit off the original intent of this thread. However, I feel that a code demanding CO detectors and a maintenance program for them is not unreasonable. As pointed out, smoke detectors have saved a ton of lives - including at least one of our girls when we had a fire in the house many years ago.

Jim

luvrbus · December 28, 2010, 11:21:08 AM

Fl is one of the few states by law that require CO detectors in motels and apartments something went wrong

good luck

Tony LEE · December 28, 2010, 04:11:23 PM

It isn't just CO detectors either. My 10yo Airstream had propane, smoke and CO detectors and they were all faulty. Couldn't test the CO detector properly but the other two didn't react at all even though the test button worked.

We now have CO and smoke alarms in all three rooms of the MH.

Len Silva · December 28, 2010, 05:10:33 PM

I do believe also that there is language in the Florida Building Code that garage spaces must be sealed off from living spaces to prevent intrusion of CO gasses.

I think there was something in the first report about a door being propped open which would have defeated the purpose of such a code.

luvrbus · December 28, 2010, 05:41:52 PM

Sad, I have seen CO detectors mounted at floor level in RV's and buildings I remodeled a hotel were some were killed when the ac in the ceiling brought CO into a room and the detectors all worked but they were too low according to some.
A big law suit over that as the contractor installed the CO detectors were the engineer had spec and the fire marshal approved it went on for years about was CO heavier or lighter than air or the same I don't think they ever figured it out but we mounted the CO detectors in the ceiling on the remodel, guess if they did not work at floor level try the ceiling huh

good luck

Gary '79 5C · December 28, 2010, 06:19:18 PM

I understand the tragic nature of this.

1. A bad car battery started this chain of events which ended in deaths of (5) youth.

2. They left the car running as it needed a jump earlier in the day. Ignorance of the consequences continued the chain of events.

3. Just a question I would ask myself, "Why do (5) youths, ages 16 to 19 need a hotel room to celebrate a B-Day ?? I believe I have the ages correct.

The blame starts and ends with the above for me. I am sure the lawyers will have a different view.

belfert · December 28, 2010, 07:37:57 PM

The combination smoke/CO detectors I use in my house will quit working 7 years after they are first powered on. They start beeping continually when they age out. Kidde apparently thinks that 7 years is the life of a CO detector.

It is not cheap as I have 7 of these units in my house at $42 each. I also have two Kidde CO detectors that display the level of CO. They are all wired together to go off throughout the house in case of CO detected.

Overboard, yes. I have to have 7 smoke detectors due to building code. I have a hallway that has a header in it seperating it. It was unclear if code would consider it two hallways so I put in two units.

belfert · December 28, 2010, 07:44:50 PM

A local Scout camp had a seasonal employee die of CO poisoning maybe 10 years ago. He had stayed after camp closed for the summer to help winterize and was staying in a cabin instead of the normal tent. It was starting to get cool so the furnace was used. It leaked CO and there was no detector.

The Scout council immediately put CO detectors in every sleeping room in all buildings at all of their camps. They also had all heating equipment serviced and anything questionable repaired or replaced. They spent a ton of money.

I have no idea if they were breaking any codes or laws by not having CO detectors at the time.