DMV rule regarding conversion in California

[boogiethecat]

Anyone out there know the actual statute or number of the rule that defines an "RV" when converting a school bus to RV? 
A buddy of mine just bought a very nice 40' rear powered Bluebird, went to the DMV to get the registration transferred to his name, and when DIRECTLY asking what was SPECIFICALLY needed to pass inspection to be reclassified as an RV, he was NOT given a straight answer by three different people in a row.

My understanding was that all it takes is a toilet, not necessarily even a permanent one, and perhaps a mattress.  When I did mine all I had in it was a portable pottie, and the guy didn't even care. 
But I'd like to know the actual word-for-word, or even better, the actual rule number so he can quote it to them and have it right next time he drives his bus there to get it inspected.  They were so absurdly non-committal that  he was left totally in the dark...

Cheers

[tekebird]

try 362

[TomC]

It has to have eating, sleeping, and a toilet (shower not necessary) facilities and not seat more than 15 (then it would still be considered a bus).  This has to be built in facilities (the toilet can be a portable type).  But carrying a Coleman stove with a cooler is not considered eating facilities.  Good Luck, TomC

[Ray D]

I was told to fill out a "Statement of Facts", available at the DMV, and got my license plates.  It is a legal document for these things.  I did get the run around and you have to keep going and going up till you find someone that knows what they are doing.  I would fill out the statement of facts, go in to get your'e plates and ask for supervisors till someone accepts the document.  It has worked for others too.

Ray D

[Sean]

Here's the CVC section (direct link http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d01/vc362.htm):

362.  A "house car" is a motor vehicle originally designed, or permanently altered, and equipped for human habitation, or to which a camper has been permanently attached. A motor vehicle to which a camper has been temporarily attached is not a house car except that, for the purposes of Division 11 (commencing with Section 21000) and Division 12 (commencing with Section 24000), a motor vehicle equipped with a camper having an axle that is designed to support a portion of the weight of the camper unit shall be considered a three-axle house car regardless of the method of attachment or manner of registration. A house car shall not be deemed to be a motortruck.

Now, what "designed and equipped for human habitation" means is a matter that is not explicitly defined in the CVC.  Rather, there are administrative guidelines that the DMV has, and there is judicial case law around it.  For example, here is a judgment from the court of appeals regarding the denial of a change in status to "Housecar" of a truck tractor modified with living quarters: http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/opinions/archive/G032879.PDF.  Finding those in writing is much more difficult than just looking it up on the state's web site.

FWIW, there is nothing at all in any of the other 28 legal codes in California defining this further (although "Housecar" is referenced several times in the Penal and Health & Safety codes, as well as throughout the CVC).

As Tom wrote, the DMV generally wants to see some "permanent" modification for cooking and/or toilet facilities.  But it will definitely depend on what inspector you get when you drive up -- there's really nothing you can point them to in writing.  Note that in the judgment I quoted above, an extensively modified truck tractor was still required to register as a commercial vehicle.

If you get to the DMV, and they refuse "Housecar" status even with permanently installed facilities, ask them to point to whatever regulation they think they're citing.  Or ask for a supervisor.  If none of that works, just go to a different DMV office -- eventually, you'll get someone who knows what they're doing.

FWIW.

-Sean
http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com

[HB of CJ]

Hello boogiethecat...how are you doing?  Crowns forever and all that stuff.  Oregons requirements may be different than Commiefornias, but the nice local friendly Oregon DMV lady said the specifications "were federal in nature" for whatever that is worth.  I made my apppointment and drove the Crown to the local DMV.

To get my 1974 Crown 10-wheeler licensed in Oregon as a motorhome (see above) all I needed was permanent sleeping and cooking facilities.  No toilet required at all.  I screwed a full size bed frame to the floor using turnbuckles and the existing floor bus seat holes.  Tightning the turnbuckes insured a very firm, tight bed frame.

Then I strapped a apartment sized propane stove/oven to the floor in the same fashion, hooked up the gas to a throw-a-way propane bottle and stashed the bottle in the oven compartment.  The top burners worked fine, only obviously the oven could not be used.  No problem there, I never use the thing anyway.

Guess what.  The kind, friendly local Oregon DMV lady just climbed into the driver's seat, looked at the VIN tag on top of the heater mounted on the dashboard, glanced to the rear and asked me if I had cooking and sleeping arrangements.  Yes I answered.  She just smiled and signed off.

That easy.  In 10 minutes I walked out with Oregon motor home plates.  Again, obviously this is a very small mountain valley town in SW Oregon.  What worked for me may not work elsewhere, especially in Commiefornia.  Your results may vary.  I later dated the lady.  He he he.  Crowns forever! 

[Cary and Don]

We found it a lot easier to have the local CHP inspector to come out and look at it.  He verified the numbers on the chassis, talked buses for about a half hour and signed the form.

Don and Cary
GMC4107
Neoplan AN340

[Tim Strommen]

Hello Boogie,

   I had a similar experience that HB of CJ did - only at the Fremont, CA DMV office (east SF Bay Area).  I had my local PD send out a CSO (Community Service Officer), to verify the VIN, and took the form in to the office.  A very short exchange occured:

Clerk: "It's a housecar?"
Me: "Yes."
Clerk: "Diesel?"
Me: "Yes."
Clerk: "That will be $90"
Me: "Can you break 100?"
Clerk: "Yup."

I handed over the cash and he came back with the plates, registration tag, and told me the new title would be mailed within the week.

The trick when dealing with the government - is to say as little as possible and be honest up front... 

-Tim

P.S. Another thing you might want to have your friend look at is: the California DMV Recreational Vehicles and Trailers Handbook.  Make sure that if your friend goes to the DMV he uses the term housecar (if the clerk says "motorhome", make sure that he corrects the clerk [there is no CVC definition for a "motorhome", although the term is defined in the DMV handbook linked in this post]).  If the clerk presses the "motorhome" term he should ask for a supervisor... -T

[lyndon]

Make sure that if your friend goes to the DMV he uses the term housecar (if the clerk says "motorhome", make sure that he corrects the clerk [there is no CVC definition for a "motorhome", although the term is defined in the DMV handbook linked in this post]).  If the clerk presses the "motorhome" term he should ask for a supervisor... -T

In Alberta, I tried to register my "coach" as a motorhome, but the computer choked on the serial number. The problem was that they have to fill in 2 serial numbers for the motorhome classification: one for the chassis, and one for the living quarters. The agent tried to use that same number for both, but could not override the error. He called the DMV folks -- we have private registry agents in Alberta -- they said to just register it "Utility" class (no such thing as "housecar" here).

What is utility class, I asked? Same thing as an SUV. So now I have one real big SUV.

Don

P.S. Do all s'n's motorhomes have two serial numbers?

[bobofthenorth]

I don't know from 2 serial numbers but that wasn't an issue registering in that more progressive province to the east of you Don.  Mine's registered as a motorhome in the land of living skies.

[Stormcloud]

In Manitoba, the registration change from coach to motorhome went something like this.....

Me: "I'd like to change the registration from a seated bus to a motorhome."
Her: "Is there a frig or icebox, and bed in the bus?"
Me: "Yes."
Her: What about a toilet?"
Me: "Yes, theres a toilet also, but it's a porta-potti."
Her: "Thats fine.  Sign here."

No inspections, no hassle.

Some days you get the bear, and some days the bear gets you.

Regards.

Mark

[happycamperbrat]

I know this is an old thread, but............. sigh....... the DMV lady gave me wrong information when I registered my bus and now I am having to deal with it (but fortunately the cop let me off the hook and didnt do anything other then a lecture.) This may help others here as well.

Health and Safety CodeRecreational Vehicle, Manufactured Home, Mobilehome, Commercial Coach, Truck Camper, or Floating Home
18010.  "Recreational vehicle" means both of the following:
(a) A motor home, travel trailer, truck camper, or camping trailer, with or without motive power, designed for human habitation for recreational, emergency, or other occupancy, that meets all of the following criteria:

(1) It contains less than 320 square feet of internal living room area, excluding builtin equipment, including, but not limited to, wardrobe, closets, cabinets, kitchen units or fixtures, and bath or toilet rooms.

(2) It contains 400 square feet or less of gross area measured at maximum horizontal projections.

(3) It is built on a single chassis.

(4) It is either self-propelled, truck-mounted, or permanently towable on the highways without a permit.

(b) A park trailer, as defined in Section 18009.3.

(Amended Sec. 2, Ch. 566, Stats. 2000. Effective January 1, 2001.)

[happycamperbrat]

The strange thing that threw the cop was that I have NON commercial plates with 1 number, 3 letters and 3 numbers which was why the DMV lady told me I didnt have to have a CDL and could put my tags on the back instead of the front.

[happycamperbrat]

BUT, if it is a "non-commercial" vehicle (which the plates clearly are) then why in the heck would I need a CDL? California only requires CDLs for "commercial" vehicles............... argh!!!

[RJ]

Teresa -

You do NOT need a CDL to drive a "housecar" in CA.

UNLESS:

It's a 45-footer, and then you need to have a non-commercial Class B.

Talk about a GREAT way to thoroughly mess up the mind of a DMV technician!

FWIW & HTH. . .