Fiberglass repair on a H Prevost

[luvrbus]

I need some help on repairing fiberglass on the H3 41 I purchased it has a delamination problem can this be repaired without replacing a complete panel.Prevost wants a small fortune to replace the panels they are telling me when it starts on a panel it will keep spreading.The guy is talking above my knowledge of fiberglass with his terms of plain weave,stain weave and etc.you fiberglass experts help me out please I am still reeling from the price of tires for this bus   thanks

[tekebird]

really save making a new piece when talking panel once it has started to delam you will have a near impossible job trying to repair it

[tekebird]

are they using a core in the panel?

you could attempt it by totally removing the delam portion and adding new glass and re gelcoating it?

cheapest way would to be start calling around looking for a wreck or burnt bus

[Green-Hornet]

Where, on the bus, is the damage?

[Jeremy]

'Delamination' is a term that is often used to bamboozle the innocent, as it sounds technical and covers a wide spectrum of situations - For instance, it can be that one GRP lamination coming away from another, normally due to a design and/or manufacturing fault, or it could be that the fibreglass itself is fine but the core material it is attached to is breaking down due to impact or severe vibration, or simply age.

Once 'movement' is taking place then the damage will spread, as you have been told. It is possible to inject resin (epoxy ideally) into the failed layer of the laminate, which will stablise the situation, although the panel will never be as strong as it once was. More than a few high-tech ocean-racing yachts have suffered potentially catastrophic delamination of their hulls after falling off a big waves etc, but have survived due to the prompt repairs of this sort.

If the delamination is still fairly localised then grinding off the layers of GRP above the delamination, then replacing them with new fibreglass is perfectly satisfactory. If, as can happen for example, the entire foam core of the panel has turned to dust, or perhaps has got wet, then a new panel would be the most straightforward solution if they are available, but if not a repair job is still possible - in that situation you would split the panel into two halves (either side of the core), and then, depending upon the thickness of the core, either replace the core with a new sheet of foam or whatever, or with a liquid mix of epoxy and filler powder.

Try to question the guy who is advising you about the delamination to get a better undertsnading of exactly what the problem is, then you will know better how to proceed

Jeremy

[boogiethecat]

My thought, if it's delam-ing, it's toast anyway, so why not play with it a little to see if you can either save it or at least slow the process down.  You have in your favor that it's not a boat, and thus it's not a life-threatening structual problem.

I would try this- and hopefully you can get to both sides? If not it's not as good but will probably work... my idea comes from the fact that I just got finished rebuilding my old fiberglass boat, did a lot of work with delaminated stuff and this worked really well for me...

Get some two part epoxy (not polyester resin) and some 3cc luer-lock plastic syringes +  some needles, as long as you can get.  Drill small holes (1/16" or so) about 4" apart, all over the delaminated area, that don't go all the way thru the fiberglass, but instead try to pass thru one layer of fiberglass and stop when the drill enters the delaminated portion of the thickness.
If you can get to the backside and just can't figure out how to drill a hole part-way thru, you can drill all the way thru and have someone hold their finger over the hole on one side as you work from the other side as described below.  This will work but it's definitely a recipe for mess.  Best if you can figure out how to "just" drill into the delaminated area and no further.   

Mix up the resin, put it into the syringe.  Most easily done by removing the needle and sucking it in.  If the delaminated area is delam'd enough that you can get the needle thru your drilled holes and between the layers kinda sideways, stick the needle in to the delaminatd area and squirt the epoxy all around in there as best you can.  Even better is if you could put in enough to see it come out of surrounding holes.  If you can't get a needle into the delam areas, then instead make the hole the exact diameter such that the end of the syringe (luer-lock) kinda sticks into the hole and seals in, and drill it as close to going completely through without actually breaking through the other side as you can...that way you can pressurize the epoxy somewhat and it will find it's way into the area it needs to, rather than squirting out and making a mess.

IF you can get to the back side, do all of this from there.  If not do it from the front.  All in all you have nothing to loose and everything to gain.

If you can get to the backside, when you're finished and satisfied that you can't get any more epoxy in, have a pile of neo- supermagnets ready, at least 1/2 x 1" cylinder shaped.
One by one, tape up a hole with some masking tape, Put one magnet on the front, right over the taped hole, and another on the back- the magnets will stick together with great force (be careful or you can actually get blood blisters from the darned things as they go clunk and stick together).  Wait a minute until the epoxy squeezes even further around inside. Then add more pieces of tape and more magnets, one by one over the holes, working your way from the center of the delam'd area out towards the edges.

This will pull the layers together and further squeeze the epoxy around inbetween the layers to better distribute it.  Lots of it may come out of the untaped holes. You should let this happen for a while until things stabilize, then tape the holes over and put magnets on them to keep any more resin from dripping out before it cures.

Once done, walk away for 24 hours and you just might come back to a nice tight panel that may serve you well for quite a few more years!

My recommendation for the epoxy, the smallest kit you can get from J greer products http://www.jgreer.com
AeroMarine 300/21 1 1/2 Quart Kit- $24  This is the stuff I used on my boat and it's amazing.  Quite thin as compared to polyester resin, and it sticks better to everything, plus it takes a long time to cure and thus you have all the time you need to work.  ONLY mix it as directed, 2:1.  It doesn't work like polyester does where you can call your own mixture of catalyst depending on what you want to do.  It ONLY works in a 2:1 mixture.

For the magnets, http://www.emovendo.net/   
1/2" x 1" Cylinders, 20 bucks for 10 pieces
Size 1/2"diameter x 1" thick
Material: Neodymium (NdFeB)
Grade: N48
Coating: Nickel
Magnetization: Axial
Pull Force: 32.24 pounds

For the needles and syringes, 3CC luer lock with 20 gauge x 1" needle- con a doctor out of a prescription or whatever it takes to get some. They are everywhere but unfortunately not over-the-counter.  Don't use higher capacity syringes because as the diameter gets bigger, the amount of pressure you can put on the epoxy goes down.  3cc is just right and the epoxy will flow nicely through a 20ga needle. It'll only take 1 or 2 of them if you do everything in one session.  They will not be reusable after the epoxy cures.

WEAR LATEX GLOVES  The epoxy is not fun to get off your skin.  Not many things dissolve it once it's mixed.


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[luvrbus]

Jeremy thank you for the input what you are telling me is in line with the dealer the places have been left unattended for a while and this causing my problem.I sold the bus with the stipulation it would meet the Prevost certification which the mechanical part has after some work but I did not know Prevost had a cosmetic inspection that you need before they can buy a warranty on the bus.  thanks again and don't buy a bus looking at 3 year old photos given to you by a banker (brother in law)

[JackConrad]

They are everywhere but unfortunately not over-the-counter. 

For syringes, try a livestock supply place.  I bought them all the time to vaccinate and give shots to our horses & cattle.  For an online source try www.jeffers.com  or  http://www.omahavaccine.com   Jack

[Blacksheep]

I wasn't aware of Prevost offering a warranty on private owned used coaches. Where does one find out more about this?
Also if the fiberglass panel your referring to is the piece at the bottom of the bay door, you will be better off biting the 300.00 or so dollars and replace it OR you can manufacture a new panel from aluminum and paint to match the rest of the bus. I had a bottom curb gaurd that was in bad shape before I bought it and the seller/dealer did exactly this! It was very hard to tell it was done except the aluminum was smooth where the glass piece was textured but slightly so seeing a difference was hard!
After just returning from 4 days of Prevost hunting (another story) I saw a Vantare H3 with polished SS curb gaurds. Another option to think about and since I have to replace a panel on mine, I thought about going that route. Cost could be a deciding factor but it sure looked awesom!
By the way, the guy that suggested to find an old burn out or wrecked H model? Good luck, but if you know of any, please inform us all. They are very hard to find.
BS

[luvrbus]

Ace, the insurance for the warranty is written by a Co. from Scottsdale Az the only way they write it is if the bus is less than 10 years old or less than 500k miles and the bus has been certified by Prevost and I was told buy the buyer it is very expensive for 6 months but Prevost will offer it on a coach up to 3 years old.Dave at Southern Oregon had a burned H 41 and a wrecked H 45 a few years back I don't know if he still has them or not. If you are interested a outfit in Vegas has a wrecked H series for sale I can check it out for you.There is also a Insurance salvage co in Topeka Kansas that I have seen them up for auction a couple of months ago

[tekebird]

which pannels are they..  MCI has some good prices on Prevost panels

[Blacksheep]

Hey lubrbus yea check them out! I could use some body parts badly!
If nothing else, send me some numbers!
BS

[coachconverter]

luvrbus,

What panel is damaged?  I've collected a few extra panels through buying damaged buses.  For H and XL buses.

I also know someone local that has H front and rear VIP bumpers, engine door and breast plate.

Let me know,

Todd
513-267-2795

[H3Jim]

I'd be interested in those VIP bumpers