12 volt house wiring

[johns4104]

what are you thoughts of using the coach 12 and combining it with the house 12 volt.
My thoughts are since I am removing a lot of the original equipment that leaves a lot of room in the front and rear electrical box for other things.
I would put a disconnect switch at the front, for the starting and dash related items, to keep my kids from trying to fire it up while parked.
for the house and coach batteries I would use a marine switch to select house/coach or both battery banks.

I have not thought it all out yet, but any input?

Thanks,
John

[TomC]

I left the wiring from the original bus as it was-just to run the bus going down the road.  All the 12v house wiring and circuit breakers were made separate and new.  I used two 12 fuse panels and used push in circuit breakers to create the different lines to each 12v need.  I highly recommend you keep them separate.  Then if one goes out, it doesn't leave you with no 12v at all.  With all systems, having a backup is always a good idea.  For instance- I have 3 roof airs-two do the job most of the time; have 2 fresh water pumps in parallel in case one quits; have 3 heating systems-hot water exchangers run off the big engine for heat going down the road, electric heat, propane heat; have two water heaters-one feeding into the next with the final water heater wired through the inverter for hot water while driving; have three 120v power sources-land line, generator, and inverter.
Keep the systems simple with backups, and use universal equipment that is easily obtainable any where on the road, and you'll have the best time camping and not having to stress over the running of the bus.  Good Luck, TomC

[gumpy]

Personally, I wouldn't do it.

You have separate batteries and separate charging sources. I wouldn't combine the circuits, unless you have a specific need like the crossover relay for charging the house pack off the coach alternator.

[H3Jim]

I would (did) keep them separate.  YOu can always join the batteries with a switch or other means.  YOu can always put in something to allow you to charge both battery banks.

I like keeping the use of house things while parked totally separate from the bus system.  That way I know I always have good start battteries.

Although I have lots of faith in my wiring ability, its also nice to keep the bus systems intact and not perverted by any mistakes I might make.  So I can count on the bus stuff always working as it should.

I have the flexbilty to swap power from one system to the other, while keeping the two functions separate.  If one develpos a  problem it does not affect the other system.

[gus]

John,

I have separate switches for all the batteries on my 4104. If I want to use only one or the other I just disconnect the ones I don't want to use. This is a good safety factor in case of a dangerous short anywhere in the system. Some busnuts use solenoids so this can be done with switches inside the bus but solenoids are electric and can fail and it involves a lot of wiring.

Each battery has an inexpensive "Green Knob" switch. A half turn or so of the knob connects or disconnects. I can charge each battery separately or all at the same time with the bus alternator or with a battery charger.

This gives me complete flexibility but it does involve going back to the battery compartment to make changes. I made this a bit easier by installing a gas strut on the door and some quick release catches at the bottom of the door.

[gumpy]

Ok, I know this has come up before, but let's face it, I'm feeling lazy today and don't want to search....

Since it was brought up, does anyone happen to have the Grainger Part ## handy for a 200 amp continuous duty crossover solenoid for use in tying the house and coach system together?  I need to put one in a friend's bus later this spring, and need to pick it up.

(I'll probably do a search in a day or two, I just don't like the search engine on this site.  It never seems to work well for me.)

craig

[John Z]

Hi Craig,

Not sure this will be of help to you or not, but last year at this time when i was hooking this all up in my coach i stopped at Graingers and had no luck at the counter trying to buy this item!? Not sure if it was too close to lunch time for the guy or what was the problem.

I went out and got in my car and drove to a big truck supply house. He went in back and came out with a USA made Cole-Hersee 200 amp continuous solenoid for 53.28. The part number is CH-24143.

John Z

[lyndon]

Ok, I know this has come up before, but let's face it, I'm feeling lazy today and don't want to search....

Since it was brought up, does anyone happen to have the Grainger Part ## handy for a 200 amp continuous duty crossover solenoid for use in tying the house and coach system together?  I need to put one in a friend's bus later this spring, and need to pick it up.

(I'll probably do a search in a day or two, I just don't like the search engine on this site.  It never seems to work well for me.)

craig

Craig, if you like Google or Yahoo better, here's a little trick to force a one site search. Just prepend "site:" to the domain name, along with your search terms. e.g.

site:www.busconversions.com solenoid

This would find all instances of "solenoid" in this BBS, to the extent that Google/Yahoo has indexed this site, of course.

Don

[gus]

John,

You didn't say anything about using solenoids in your original post so I assume you plan to use heavy duty switches.

The problem with this plan is you will be faced with long, very heavy duty cables. This is not a good plan for starting batteries since they should be and are already pretty close to the engine. I wouldn't lengthen that run.

Routing these huge cables in a 4104 up to the driver will be a lot of work. If you plan it far enough ahead you could have these heavy switches in the floor just ahead of the LR wheel.

However, the easiest of all is the separate switches on each battery.

[johns4104]

Gus,

I guess I did not make my self very clear before.
I am completely rewiring my 4104 front to back.
And was considering combining the 12 volt house and the 12 volt coach systems.
the reasons being that the dash radio could be used any time and along with a few other items.
And I also will have lots of space in the original electrical compartments for what I need to add.
I would add a switch up front only to turn off power to some the the components for instance the starter and headlights. I would not be switching batteries at the front of the coach.
I will have a mechanical switch at the batteries or and solenoid.
mybe a switch for each battery that is a good idea too.

thanks,
John

[tekebird]

it is not a problem as long as you manage the useage.

my 04 ( professional conversion) had one 12v system

if you are planning on having a House battery bank I would tie them together with a switch so you can   cross over if you have a bank issue.

if you tie them together make  sure you do it so the coach batteries can run house stuff, the house batteries can run coach stuff and you can tie them all together at the same time.

[gus]

Joh,

You don't really need two separate 12v systems, all you need is to be able to use either or both banks of batteries. This is important because you don't always want to be charging both banks at the same time. You want to be able to connect both banks because you may someday need to use the house bank to boost the starts! Don't ask me how I know this?

With separate mechanical battery switches you can do anything you want - use either or both banks, charge one or all batteries at the same time or use only one battery in one bank. To me solenoids are just another potential electrical problem but they are necessary in some circuits.

I can understand why you want to disable the starter but not the headlights? You can disable the starter at the engine switch panel high on the right hand side, It is the right hand switch or the one next to it of the five switches. With this switch off you cannot start from any switch on the bus.

If you must disable the start switch at the front you can hide a small toggle switch inline with the start switch somewhere near the driver for safety around kids but even now  to start they have to turn on both the Run and the Start switches in the proper order. You can also install switch covers on both these switches. You should have a cover on the Emergency Shutoff switch anyway.

If you mean you are ripping out all the old wiring and starting over you are getting into a nightmare. If you are just replacing the old wires you can reach that is still plenty bad but not as much! There are many Alarm circuits which can really foul up everything if you don't get them right like the engine stopping when the brake lights or turn signals operate . Or no brake lights at all. Don't ask me how I know this either!

Make sure you leave some of the old interior lighting switches wired because they go all the way to the rear and can be used for backup lights or cameras. It is always good to have extra circuits in place for future use.

[johns4104]

Gus,
Yes I am ripping it all out, the flooring is up and the bus is totally gutted so this is the time to do it.
I will make sure that I have extra circuits from front to back for later additions.
And yes the alarm system and shut down will be fun but what isn't

Thanks,
John

[gus]

John'

You have my utmost admiration for tackling this job. I've spent many, many hours in the electrical panes both front and rear and I do not envy you this job one bit.

I found the two worst problems were corroded terminals and connectors at the panels or just plain rotten insulation. I replaced a bunch of wires but nowhere near enough.

I removed wiring from a bunch of the old rectifiers because none of my alarm or warning system was working anyway. Well, that sure caused a mess so I stopped doing that.

The instrument panel is a mess also because the wires are so tightly packed into the small space.

My bus was already converted when I bought, I'm too old to start one from scratch!

Where are you located? Do you know about the 4104 forum? It was offline for quite a while so I haven't been there lately.

Different subject; this is a good time to make sure the tops of your air beams have no corrosion holes which seems to be the biggest problem with the 4104 air suspension.