MCI 9 Side walls?

[grantgoold]

I am ready to install the side walls in my 9. I just removed the luggage racks and have a new subfloor. I have left the original panels intack below the windows. I have also left the side channel for the seats. The luggage racks had mounting screws above the windows about every 8 inches. I was hoping to reuse those. Any thoughts, ideas or pictures would be helpful.

Thanks

Grant

[gumpy]

If you don't remove the lower panels, how will you know how much corrosion is in the wall framing?

[grantgoold]

Should I remove one panel and see? If I am not going all out with this stage of the conversion I was hoping to leave them. I do not plan on spraying insulation. I would like to leave the release mechanisms for safety reasons. I am not at this stage going to replace any windows or cover them from the outside. This is the first phase and once the kids are gone then we can move to a roof raise and more extensive efforts.

Your thoughts. 

Grant

[DavidInWilmNC]

I'd remove the inside panels.  There didn't appear to be any problems in my wall, but how would I know 'til I actually removed them?  It turned out that there was corrosion / rust.  There wasn't a lot, but there was enough that a couple of sections of framing had to be replaced.  There were also 'bags' of water - insulation sealed in plastic that had filled with water over the years.  You can always raise the roof later from the window line up.  It won't really have any bearing on what you do now from the windows down.  Go ahead... remove the panels!

David

[grantgoold]

Ok. You guys have spoken and out they come tonight! If I find any money I will share it with the group!!

Thanks

Grant

[Tenor]

I assume you are asking about the structural panels behind the heating panels.  How long are you thinking that it will take for the kids to be gone?  If you are only talking for a year or two, you could certainly consider leaving them alone.  There are some advantages to having the bus heat intact for a temporary conversion.  It will be much easier to heat the coach going down the road with the original system in place since the original insulation is so poor.  If you decide to tear out the structural panels, you should go ahead and do the spray foam insulation.  It's awesome!  If you live near Michigan, I have posted a contact who has done 2 coaches with great success.  I get nothing out of recomending him.  I just found it VERY hard to find someone to do the job!  Additionally, I understand that you should have the bus properly levelled and supported if you remove those panels.  Don't just rip them out!  I hope some other members chime in here and please correct me if I am wrong!  It won't be the first time.

As for worrying about the condition of the frame, I have read here that if the sides of your bus outside show corrosion in the aluminum especially along the floor, or following rivet lines, it's a good indicator of corrosion on the frame.  My bus showed no signs of that so I opted to leave the structural panels in.  However, I did spray foam from above them across the ceiling.   Good luck!

[DavidInWilmNC]

As for worrying about the condition of the frame, I have read here that if the sides of your bus outside show corrosion in the aluminum especially along the floor, or following rivet lines, it's a good indicator of corrosion on the frame.  My bus showed no signs of that so I opted to leave the structural panels in.

That what I was referring to when I said "There didn't appear to be any problems in my wall...".  There was NO sign of corrosion on the aluminum either inside or outside the bus.  I decided to pull a couple of panels and just check.  One was fine.  One showed evidence of a past leak (not wet).  I pulled one more, and that's when I found the wet insulation and rust. 

It's a fair amount of work, but with a 4" angle grinder and an air chisel, it's not too bad.  I used the grinder to make a notch on each rivet.  Then, I used the air chisel with a pointed chisel to knock in the pin on each rivet.  The reason for the grinder's notch was to make it a bit easier to keep the chisel from wandering.  After that's done, I use the flat chisel to slice off the head of the rivet.  It sounds worse than it is.  I think the first wall took several days to do until I figured out this 'method'.  The second wall took an afternoon.

David

[Sojourner]

Inter aluminum wall panel are fasten with hollow pop rivets which is not structural but exterior skin is structural with several solid aluminum rivets close to each other. But it is does help stiffen wall for lateral support. No needs to level the coach unless remove the outer skin.
After you replace rusted "hat" frame with mild steel tubing and hot foam applied, reinstall inter aluminum skin so that sheet metal screws has a base to fasten to when applying wood or plywood over it.

All intercity buses with factory A/C equips will cause condensation on inside of outer skin & fiberglass batting to be soak due passinger exhaling and sometime from leaking gutter joints (MCI-8) while parking during rain storm. So expect to find rust metal and look for starting a new aluminum corroding behind exterior skin.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry

[grantgoold]

Guys, I was talking about the wood grain panels that sit directly underneath the windows. I do not want to start ripping out stuff that is structural and may interfer with the OTR heat. I have already pulled up the stainless steel covers that ran along the windows at the floor. I now only get heat from the blower holes in the floor and nothing along the windows. That works o.k. for me. I also want to try and keep the safety latches if possible.

Your thoughts.

Grant

[NJT5047]

Pulling the wood grain panels does not create structural issues.  Those are heater ducts..as are the stainless ducts at the bottom of the walls.   The riveted panels behind the wood grain panels are structural.  You WILL find rust behind the inner panels.  If you want a 'keeper' coach, pull'em.  If you want to finish the bus during your present lifetime, leave'em alone. 
The bus isn't likely to structurally compromised by whatever rust is inside the panels.   
In the event you do remove the panels, mark each one for location in some fashion that won't clean off.  Each panel is different, and must be returned to its original position. 
The two big outlets in the front of the bus are your heater outlets now.  The small holes are inlets.  The front of the bus will stay toasty! 
Actually, once the bus is walled up and such, the rear will warm up too.  I have that situation.  But on the road, the rear of the bus isn't far from the temp of the front. Even in 20* weather.   I do have foam insulation in the walls and ceiling.  But the air circulation will pull the cold off the floor and the warm air will fill in.   
I'd recommend, at the least, furring out the sidewalls with 3/4" strips and adding a 3/4" foamular or some similar panel insulation.  Double this up where filling in skinned windows.
I'd also remove the ceiling skins and pull the fiberglass insulation out and cut and fit two panels of 3/4" foam into the ceiling...1.5" total.   Then you can replace the skin, or install a suitable headliner base.   This modification was some work, but it was worth the effort.  Made a huge difference in cooling and heating the coach.  You gotta get into the ceiling anyway to install lighting and ACs...if you use rooftops.
Pulling the sidewall panels and repairing any rust you may find is a showstopper for some converters...unless you have help and are a good fabricator/welder.   This will also get into $$$$. 
Unfortunately, the value of the shell isn't improved by such metal work....it should be, but?? 
Keeping the window safety latch is easy.   Just keep'em.  You can still use Pen windows in the OEM frames.  The latches can be retained.
JR





   

[grantgoold]

Thanks for the details. I will keep the latches and begin the work of pulling off the wood grain panels. I think for right now. I will leave the final panels. I need to get this bus on the road for travel or the wife will make me live in it full-time. I already have the stainless out. Thanks for all the input.

Grant
Sacramento

[lyndon]

Grant, we're keeping the original walls intact and just building over them for now. This is the quicky conversion to keep the bus usable (and keep the costs down) while we build out basement infrastructure and focus on mechanical issues.

The stainless steel ductwork just had to come out for cleaning, but we decided to put it back in place to maintain the original heating distribution. Windows are staying put as well, but a few sliding RV style replacements are fairly high on the upgrade list. Everything inside will be modular for easy removal when the time is right.

Don

[chazwood]

Grant, we're keeping the original walls intact and just building over them for now.

What do you do about around the windows? The added material increases wall thickness and prevents the window gaskets from laying flat doesn't it? I'm at this stage myself, and am puzzled as to what the solution might be.


Thanks.

[NJT5047]

FWIW, here's what I did with window v walls.  As with a good many things, I'd do it differently next time.  But, it looks OK and works. We have since added another 1.5" pieceof trim beneth the windows that coverd the screws that attach the interior wall panels.
The little square blocks cover the OEM window latches.   The blocks are a little dorky looking. 
My walls are furred out with 3/4" strips and is insulated with 3/4" Foamular cut to fit between the furring strips.
JR 

[NJT5047]

THis one shows the edge better.  JR