Two conversions for the price of one?

[lyndon]

We'd be interested in any thoughts this group has about doing a "quicky-conversion" over the winter and starting the real conversion next fall. To explain, we have an insurance problem that requires a conversion completion to solve. The only policy available to us is commercial and costs us more in a month than RV insurance would in a year. Yes, we've talked to every broker around and they all find us same policy. No insurance company with reasonable options for a conversion-in-progress is licensed to operate in Alberta.

Since the protection-racket cash would be better spent on conversion stuff, we plan to drop to fire-and-theft for the winter and go crazy with the actual conversion work. Time and cost issues would not allow us to do a very decent job using that approach, so we are considering doing a rather minimal job just to make some distant underwriter and his computer program happy, re-insure and get out for some basic tin-tent camping next summer.

The original plan was to spend a few years doing the best conversion we could manage, while using the bus the whole time. We'd like to stick with that plan for the longer term. But the seats and racks are out, the air ducts are clean and ready to go back on, and we're about ready to build right over the OE panels. Lots of screws and bolts -- a Meccano set conversion -- put it together to take apart later. Plumbing will take some special consideration; we'd rather not do it all twice. Electrical? 12/24 LED for lights, a small inverter for a small refrigerator; portable propane for cooking on the picnic table.

I want to focus on the mechanical side of things a bit more over the winter, anyway, so maybe it's not such a bad plan. What's right and/or wrong with this approach? We look forward to your comments.

Don & Lynn

[grantgoold]

I say go for it! Using the bus is a much better motivator then working on the bus while you deal with all the hassels. I am doing a quicky/economic conversion now (2 years) and when all the kids are gone, I much more detailed (costly) conversion.

My 2 cents.

Grant

[gumpy]

That's basically what we did. I had most of the infrastructure done, including the roof raise, reframing, and skinning. We wanted to make a trip to AK in 2005, so I got the heat, plumbing, and electric in, and built a quasi-functional interior. I used some scrap plywood to make bathroom walls and did the tile work in the shower. Used an old desktop and some scrap plywood to make a kitchen counter top and installed a garage sale stainless sink and a new RV range. Had a garage sale microwave. I ran a single electric cord from the inverter and made it work for everything.  I got the plumbing and heat working, and the electric. It's been working
great for us for over 2 years. The problem, though, is that it's so hard to go back and rip it all out and make it nice because in the
interim, it's no longer functional, and what if I want to use the bus then?  Plus, it was functional, so the pressure to get it done was no longer there. So, it's been a task getting in there to work on it, but I've started back into it lately.

It's a great way to get the bus to a more comfortable and usable condition, and if it helps you use your bus more, and also saves you some money in the long run, then go for it.

One of the advantages we've found to doing it this way is that now that we've had a chance to use it, we've found some things we will change in the final version.  Some things work well; some don't work so well.  Better to find that out now, than later.

craig

[RJ]

Lyndon -

Agree - keep the liability-only insurance on the coach until you get it finished, then add the fire/theft/comprehensive.

Most underwriters don't have a clue about our little hobby anyway. . .

FWIW & HTH. . .

[DrivingMissLazy]

that requires a conversion completion to solve

What has to be included for a conversion completion? A potty chair? A portable BBQ grill? Air Mattresses? 5 gallon water container? An ice chest? Some folding chairs? Paper plates and plastic glasses? I have camped many times with not much more than that.

Richard

[lyndon]

What has to be included for a conversion completion? A potty chair? A portable BBQ grill? Air Mattresses? 5 gallon water container? An ice chest? Some folding chairs? Paper plates and plastic glasses? I have camped many times with not much more than that.

Hi Richard,

I wish it were that simple. We've always camped like that (without the bus) so even stainless steel sides are an improvement. But the answers are always fuzzy. Here's the "best" (fuzzy) answer we've seen:

A completed conversion means you are no longer constructing the unit, so the unit is completely finished.  The reason is that my insurance company has an exclusion on the policy that says you will not be covered under insurance if the unit is under construction.  It has to look like a regular motorhome.  So in otherwards it has, bedroom, bathroom, kitchen, cupboards, sink, fridge, carpets, lino, etc etc.  When you get the appraisal once it's all done then it will tell you what value you should be insuring it for.  If you were to do an appraisal half-way through the construction then the value will be off.

She goes on to mention that her company does not offer liability only policies but recommends a broker who might. Of course, they offer the same commercial policy we already have. So there goes Russ's option! "Don't have a clue" would be an understatement.

Craig, having spent hours on you website -- both before and after our purchase -- we feel a bit humbled by your talent and ambition. Your point about getting back on task is not taken lightly, considering where it's coming from. I just love to drive the thing and can't imagine having it out of service more than a few months. Lynn was curious about what you will do differently.

Lynn and I agree on one positive side to all this: We could not be having more fun with any other hobby. We've reached a bit of a fork in the road, but I'm sure there's many to come.

Many thanks for sharing the fun!

Don & Lynn

[gumpy]

... Lynn was curious about what you will do differently.

We're making some minor changes in the floor plan. Will make a few changes in materials, also, as we've found that not having all nice carpets, floors, etc, works well for our style of camping where we're constantly tracking in stuff. So we'll find some floor treatments that are favorable. Probably wood with some throw rugs in the front end and a install a vacuum in the bay for cleaning.

The planned console above the driver will change slightly to accomodate a flat panel tv, since the format is changing next year and the
one I was going to put in will be obsolete before I get it nstalled.

I probably won't make the dinette so that it can fold into a bed since the kids will be out of college before we get this bus done, and we're
probably past the need to bring their friends with us. I finally figured out how to build a dinette that can be easily expanded into the hallway
when in use to give more room for comfortable seating and eating. When not in use, it will be no wider than the bathroom/pantry wall behind
it giving more room in the kitchen area. Hoping to start work on that soon but need to get the nice bathroom walls done first.

I'll be moving my electrical setup. The breaker box I installed is not in a convenient place. I thought it would work ok as I would not need
to get to it much, but it turns out I have to get to it all the time to turn on and off the a/c compressors and/or the heater element, when
plugging into shore power. I'll also be installing relays on the A/C compressors, heater coil, and someother 120v stuff so I can control them
using my low voltage switch system.

Also, my generator plans are changing and I didn't leave enough room where I initially wanted to put it, so
I'll be moving my batteries, inverter and breaker box to the middle bay, and using the front bay to install the generator.

[Jerry32]

I started mine in April and only had liability ins to start but used it as time went on. As I completed enough to call it an RV I had the thing appraised and got full coverage. Now I intend to spend the winter in Yuma and see how it works out Jerry

[Jerry Liebler]

Don & Lynn,
   Absolute go for it.  Find out exactly what is needed for the 'protection racket' to call it a conversion, then do just, and only, that in an easily removable lowest cost way.  Most bus converters are continuously thinking of and implementing changes and improvements any way, you'll just be starting that process with an early goal of satisfying the 'protection racket'.  I had to have 'cooking facilities, sleeping accommodation, and toilet to get a licence as a motorhome in Oregon, at least according to the 'rules'.  I showed up for the inspection with a microwave, a cot and a prorta potty all strapped to bare walls of a gutted bus.  I did have my generator installed and a rudimentary electrical system, but that was because I had found a deal on the generator.  It turned out the DMV inspector never really looked at any of it, but I was 'ready'.  I used the bus in this state as, more or less, a moving van making 3 1/2 round trips from Oregon to my new home in Kentucky.  Now, three years later, it's almost done.  But as I said, it'll never be totally 'done'.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120   

[JohnEd]

There are 30 foot 5th whels out there for a grand or less.  They have a roof AC, a stove, a refer, furnace and hotwater heater and all the cabnets to fool all of em.  Might even get some use out of all that stuff, short term and long.  Raise the roof, put in the floor, shoot the foam and install your hardware.  Its done when you say it is.

2 cents,

John

[ChuckMC9]

I agree with almost everything that's been said, and I've also taken that approach. I will only add that of the things that you do complete to a usefulness that you will use going forward, is to do those things well. For example if you have to run a wire behind a wall or install an outlet, go ahead and do it right and you won't have to re-do every. darn. thing. As gumpy said, it can be de-motivating to redo something you've already done. This especially applies with plumbing!

Something else I do is having the concept of 'placeholders' which are functional substitutes for the real thing. Like wallcovering which is marginally acceptable, but you can see in your mind's eye what the real thing will look like. And kitchen cabinetry, etc.

Working on the infrastructure with quality whilst the 'cosmetics' are in shambles is 100% a great approach, IMHO. The way I look at it is like software. Version 1.0 was usable for the weekend. Version 2.0 was mostly functional with a decent climate, Version 3.0 was ready for fulltiming, but not cosmetically optimal, and Version 4.0 will start to look somewhat 'done'. My 'build sheet' goes up to Version 6.x, which is two years away or so.

I'm on Build 3.7 now, and within this year will start on some eye-candy.

[JimC]

I also agree with a lot of what has been said,

BUT!, I would make sure that everything that you do to the mechanicals, plumbing, electric, drains, etc. be done right the first time.

You can always move a cabinet to a different location and still use the same water and drain lines, or run with one electrical plug and extension cords for a while and install the other branch outlets later, but you do not want to be redoing any of the infrastructure like Chuck said. Redecorating after a few months (or seasons) is one thing, Redoing is another.

Plan them right the first time and you will be ahead of things in the long run.

Jim

[DavidInWilmNC]

I agree with a lot of what's been said.  With the plumbing (H & C supply lines, anyway), however, I doubt if much of what I've installed up to now will be in the bus when it's finished, if that ever happens!  I mean, it is like a house - redecorating, upgrading, modifying will likely occur the entire time I own the bus (or a house).  I also went cheap on the generator.  I don't see having a nice $5,000+ diesel genset sitting when a used gasoline unit (an old Onan, in my case) will do the trick for the few times I need it.  I've designed most things, so far, that it won't take a great deal of effort when I change my plans along the way, which has happened on just about every aspect of the conversion so far.

You've definitely got to enjoy the actual conversion process to be able to endure the stress, time and energy, and expense of doing this.  It takes a trip every now and then to rekindle the motivation for me.  Otherwise, it's a drag to work on the bus constantly and not get to enjoy it.  Of course, with diesel around $3+, it's more of a motivation to work on it instead of using it!  I'm thinking the veggie oil idea might be a good option eventually, as I have a good supply of relatively clean used oil. 

Personally, I'm looking for a cheap camper to use in the interim.  It's a royal pain to remove all my parts and supplies, tools, to secure everything for a trip, and still be able to work on the bus.  It's a bit of a deterrent to either work on it (if I'm planning a trip in it) or to plan a trip in it (if I'm trying to accomplish anything).  I have a pop-up camper that I've been using once a month for the past a few years, but that is getting old.  Setting it up and taking it down take about two hours each.  Anybody got a cheap camper for sale?   

David

[ChuckMC9]

Of course, with diesel around $3+, it's more of a motivation to work on it instead of using it!

You might consider that with that knowledge, the conclusion might better be reversed. It's entirely likely that you will look back on $3 as being not so bad after all.

(I'll probably get flamed with that statement. And no, I'm not a treehugger.)

[Jerry Liebler]

Don & Lynn,
     I only carry the minimum state required liability insurance.  In other words I'm self insuring everything else.  Here in the USA liability only coverage is available at relatively reasonable cost.  I'm paying about $125/year.  My insurance company, Progressive, wanted pictures of the insides that showed it no longer had seats, that's all.  Hopefully there is an equivalent insurer in Canada.  As you know Canada only has three letters.  'C' eh, 'N' eh, 'D' eh.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120