24 volt starting bank dead - How best to charge?

[belfert]

I went to start my bus last night and it wouldn't start.  I found the 12 volt batteries were all reading about 1 volt.  There must be a parasitic drain somewhere as I left the battery disconnect on for maybe a week.

Any suggestions on how to rectify this?  The system is 24 volt.  Do I just charge each battery seperately with my 12 volt charger?  I am thinking I should remove all cables from the batteries to prevent damage to the VERY expensive DDEC and B500 ECM.

I certainly have no way to jump start the bus and I don't really want to do that as I have heard horror stories of fried DDECs.

Brian Elfert

[El-Sonador]

I went to start my bus last night and it wouldn't start. I found the 12 volt batteries were all reading about 1 volt. There must be a parasitic drain somewhere as I left the battery disconnect on for maybe a week.

Any suggestions on how to rectify this? The system is 24 volt. Do I just charge each battery seperately with my 12 volt charger? I am thinking I should remove all cables from the batteries to prevent damage to the VERY expensive DDEC and B500 ECM.

I certainly have no way to jump start the bus and I don't really want to do that as I have heard horror stories of fried DDECs.

Brian Elfert

Do you have a 24vdc house bank you can tie into, just to start your bus...

I installed a solinoid for this very reason and by flipping a switch I can jump start my bus... if not you have to use cables

Steve

[Dallas]

I went to start my bus last night and it wouldn't start.  I found the 12 volt batteries were all reading about 1 volt.  There must be a parasitic drain somewhere as I left the battery disconnect on for maybe a week.

Any suggestions on how to rectify this?  The system is 24 volt.  Do I just charge each battery seperately with my 12 volt charger?  I am thinking I should remove all cables from the batteries to prevent damage to the VERY expensive DDEC and B500 ECM.

I certainly have no way to jump start the bus and I don't really want to do that as I have heard horror stories of fried DDECs.

Brian Elfert

Brian,
I've never fried a DDEC in close to 30 years of working with them.
Just make sure your polarity is correct.
Since it's down to LOW voltage, you may be well off to diconnect and service the batteries one at a time. Check the water in all of them. DO NOT refill with anything but PURE DISTILLED WATER. Clean all connections. Check each Battery for condition and voltage as it comes out of the bank. Check for a bad ground, (This is where I'm leaning. Parasitic loads on my 12V system will hold up for over a month without causing an alarm). Look for corrosion on cables, terminals, posts, and nut/bolt connections.
An easy way to check for a bad ground is to hook your battery ground to a set of jumper cables, then hook the cables to the engine directly. Try to start it from the rear. If, (with your indicated voltage) you get any sound at all from the solenoid, you have a bad ground.
IHTH

Dallas

[darrenayres]

Brian,
I had some mc9 charter buses and had a couple of instances where the battery disconnect was not thrown and, sure enough, low batteries. I've done a couple of things depending on time available. One is just like you said: disconnect all cables and charge one battery at a time. I've done this with a charger and with jumper cables if no charger was available. Another time I threw the battery disconnect switch and waited a few hours. The batteries regained some juice. Then I jumped it from my 12 volt truck attaching the ground clamp to the far left battery terminal (grounded to the frame) and the hot clamp to the far right terminal (going to battery disconnect). It gave it enough to start the bus.

Darren

[belfert]

I don't have a house bank yet so I can't start from that.  I still have a evening or two of stripping before interior stripping is done.  Electrical will start in about 10 days when the bus is back from C&J Bus Repair where it goes next week.

I think I'll just charge each battery seperately.  I think they are sealed batteries that can't have water added.  I'm hoping the batteries aren't fried.

Brian Elfert

[El-Sonador]

I don't have a house bank yet so I can't start from that. I still have a evening or two of stripping before interior stripping is done. Electrical will start in about 10 days when the bus is back from C&J Bus Repair where it goes next week.

I think I'll just charge each battery seperately. I think they are sealed batteries that can't have water added. I'm hoping the batteries aren't fried.

Brian Elfert

Hey Brian...

Sounds like a good plan to pull them out, get them charged up [separately] and do a full service on them... ei... clean post, terminals etc...

I found that a sticky luggage bay light switch may be a cause of power drain when the Bus Bats are left on, but then again it could be a number of little things like that.

You will feel better with a total going over of those batteries in the end anyways...

Steve

[Dallas]

I don't have a house bank yet so I can't start from that.  I still have a evening or two of stripping before interior stripping is done.  Electrical will start in about 10 days when the bus is back from C&J Bus Repair where it goes next week.

I think I'll just charge each battery seperately.  I think they are sealed batteries that can't have water added.  I'm hoping the batteries aren't fried.

Brian Elfert

Brian,
If your start batteies are lead acid, they most likely have some way to get to the filler.
There might be a piece of plastic over it, but that can be taken out or cut to access the fillers.
My group 31's looked like and said they were 'Maintenence Free', but a litle probing with a screwdriver fixed that. Besides, I've been using them for 7 years and they still work good.
Dallas

[plyonsMC9]

Hi Brian,

Good advice has been given.  I would just re-iterate what Steve said about cleaning the terminals  EXCELLENT idea.  I skipped this step the last time I had to separately charge my 8-Ds.  Dumb mistake on my part.  Bus didn't start immediately.  LOUD POP.  I mean - LOUD!  Turned out one of the terminals wasn't clean enough for a connection.  So it arced (OK, I can't spell arc'ed, arked? )  creating the proper connection.  Between the post and the cable.  I won't ever let that happen again.  Also - watch out for sparks - be careful!

Hope this helps, Phil

[belfert]

Fortunately, these batteries are extremely clean right now.  They look like brand new.  I think the bus dealer put them in as they are from Virginia Battery Company or similiar and the bus was bought in Virginia.  (It was run out of Atlanta.)

I'll see if I can't check the water even if they are "sealed".

Brian Elfert

[plyonsMC9]

Hi Brian,

New batteries - good.  Well, at least watch out for those sparks!  I didn't catch what kind of bus you have, but on my MC9, I was advised to start using the main / start batteries cutoff switch.  e.g., after stopping the bus, and before staying for a while, use the main start battery cutoff switch.    My batteries also had drained at some point.  So, I started using the cutoff switch - in case there was a small electrical drain somewhere...

Hope this helps,
Phil

[belfert]

New batteries - good.  Well, at least watch out for those sparks!  I didn't catch what kind of bus you have, but on my MC9, I was advised to start using the main / start batteries cutoff switch.  e.g., after stopping the bus, and before staying for a while, use the main start battery cutoff switch.    My batteries also had drained at some point.  So, I started using the cutoff switch - in case there was a small electrical drain somewhere...

I have a 1995 Dina.  I normally turn off the disconnect every time, but I forgot and left it for a week and now it is dead.  I'll have to find the drain after I get the batteries charged up.

I do know all the radios and electronics and such in newer cars means that they won't make it over winter if the battery isn't disconnected.  Older vehicles with none of that crap do just fine over the winter with battery connected.

Brian Elfert

[El-Sonador]

Hey Brian...

Is a Dina a Mexican built version of the MCI...?

Not sure


Steve

[belfert]

Hey Brian...

Is a Dina a Mexican built version of the MCI...?

Dina bought MCI in 1994 and sold MCI in 1999.  The Dina Viaggio 1000 is a Dina coach that is a Dina design, not an MCI design.  It does have an all-American drivetrain.  MCI sold the Dinas in the USA, but under the Dina name even though MCI provides all service, support, and parts.  Marco Polo actually made the body for the Viaggio 1000.  Marco Polo eventually entered the Mexican market directly and the Viaggio 1000 was discontinued since Marco Polo was no longer supplying the body.

The F3500 was also made by Dina, but it had the MCI name on it even though it was a modified Dina design.  The G4500 was made in Mexico, but I have no idea if it is an MCI design or a Dina design.  G4500 production was moved to Winnipeg, but it appears the G4500 was integrated into the E4500/J4500 models.  The G4500 is no longer sold.

Brian Elfert

[tekebird]

Actually the F3500 is a modified Flxible design.....righ down to the engine compartment battery tray that isn't used by the Dina/f-3500 versions.

Dina bought licensing for the Flxible Flxliner in the 70's......produced them through the early 90's when they had a facelift......then another in the MCI F3500 and whatever the Dina version was called.

[Hobe]

If its a MCi it most likly has a tap between the two 12 volt batterys. This will put a drain on the system even when the mast switch is open . It happens all the tme in my shop. It will drain the batterys in about aweek