Interior lighting question

[Paladin]

I've been wondering something for quite some time and soon I'll need to be planning for the wiring. For those who don't plan to boondock much what is the ideal ratio of 12vdc to 120 vac lighting in your coach?
Obviously you should have some 12v lighting but for cosmetic and other factors I'd like to put mostly 120v lighting. The problem is that it would be pretty difficult cosmetically and logistically to put a 120v light right along side each 12 volt light.

I'm trying to think of a good blend so that you could run down the road or boondock on 12v only and still have the nicer (imho) and brighter 120 v lighting available when you are parked or use both! The boss doesn't see so well in darker settings and needs what I'd consider very bright lights around the vanity etc. I tend to like things more subdued. ( Maybe I'm a vampire?)

-Dave
   

[Songman]

This is an interesting question for me also. Since I am doing an all electric coach, I figure I will mostly have to have my inverter on all the time anyway so I figured all 120V lighting. I figured maybe a 12v light at the front of the coach for times when the entire bus might be shut down and that would help you get to the controls to turn everything on.

Of course, I may be completely off the mark here so this question could be enlightening to me as well.

[DavidInWilmNC]

How about using a few 12 volt lights, like LED's, for aisle lights, step lights, night lights, etc that you can just leave on without a lot of concern over power consumption?  I found a site that has bunches of styles of LED's.  I ordered several and will be mounting them in the kick space of cabinets, benches (on the booth, if that ever materializes), and steps.  As to main lighting, if you're going to use an inverter, your 120 volt lights will run directly off the battery.  You'll certainly have a better selection at lower prices going this route.  Plus you can use dimmers more easily.  Many of the halogen or xeon puck lights are 12 volt anyway and are available cheap at Lowes and Home Depot.  They can run off the 12 volt system since you're going to have some kind of charger / converter anyway.

I'm using a mix in my bus.  Cabinet and driver / passenger reading lights will be 12 volt incandescent.  I'll have the 12 volt LED's for the uses I mentioned above.  I have a few Thinlite 12 volt fluorescent lights that'll be general task lighting.  Most of the rest will be 120 volt strip fluorescent fixtures under cabinets, etc.  I'm thinking about having a track light track along the sides, in the living room area, above the windows.  There are very small track fixtures that can be placed anywhere I need them as I need them without much pre-planning.  These can also be controlled through a dimmer.  I think it is important to have both types of lighting, as redundancy is good.  I found this out recently when I somehow fried my inverter on my last trip. 

David

[Dreamscape]

I have installed both 12v and 120v in all areas that have been completed so far. Plan on the same in the front half of the coach. Figure it's good to have both kinds available just in case whatever happens. The choices are plenty in both.

Paul

[belfert]

My bus had 24 volt flourescent lights for aisle lighting.  The reflectors for the lights are actually part of the roof structure.

I choose to keep the flourescent lights and use them for house lights.  They are plenty bright and I see no need for 120 volt lights.  With all of them on in the living/litchen area it is almost too bright.  I never have 120 volts except from the generator or inverter anyhow.

[JohnEd]

I am with Belfert.  I augmented my 12V lighting in my S&S so I had no need for 120V stuff.  Still, I did install back-up 120 flo in the cockpit area.  Never really needed it.  If I had my druthers, every system would have a back-up completely redundant system.  This didn't help, did it?

John

[Paladin]

I really want redundancy for the 'what if's' but what I've been thinking is under counter and under cabinet 12v lighting, maybe rope lighting. Blending ceiling 12v and 120 and also near the vanity, kitchen etc with the 12volt mostly as hidden as possible or blended in to not be obtrusive.
I'd like to mount 120volt sconce lighting and ceiling lighting in the main salon and hallway such as it will be and also a 120 in the kitchen,bath and bed so about a 70/30 mix in favor of AC but with the ability to always get by with 12v running off the converter. I still want the ability to 'rough it' when I choose or need to.
At home I use a bunch of home automation stuff and run a JDS Stargate controller with touch pads and thought I might try to use some touch pads and a controller in the bus as well. With that I can have preset dim settings on any of the lights as well as control of anything else I want.
I just need to work out a good filter that'll block out stray X-10 signals and extraneous power line noise. I'd mount that at a main panel to hopefully clean up any electrical noise from a genset, inverter or while plugged in.


-Dave

[FloridaCliff]

Dax,

I have 12 VDC and 110 Vac lights in the bedroom and bunk area.
They are ALL LED.  The 110 Vac LEDs only use 3.8 watts and put out the equivalent to a 40 watt.

In the Hall and Parlor area the only 12Vdc lights I have are red LED.  This way occupants can see there way around, not mess
up my night vision and don't cause a reflection on the front window when driving at night.

I have 6-110 Vac 3" can lights in the Parlor with the 3.8 watt LED lights for use when not driving.

I plan on putting a curtain between the drivers and passenger to allow full lighting when driving at night.

I really like the LED's, I have reduced the energy I use as well as the heating effect by easily over 600 watts.

Cliff

[buswarrior]

Old transit buses are running 12 volt flourescent fixtures. Saves the losses through the inverter and gives you the great lighting.

Transit scrapper near you for bargain parts.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[HB of CJ]

Yeah...about the same answer.  Diesel electric coach plans.  Right now the scheme is to keep the "chassis side" (12 vdc) and the "coach side" (110 vac) separate.  Ex-schoolie Crown with lots of extra interior lighting circuits that probably will not be used.  What may be employed rolling along the road will be upgraded with florescent stuff.

All the "coach side" stuff will run thru the invertor(s) unless the gen set is running managing heavy loads like the batts, oven, clothes dryer, A/C's, basic food prep, etc..  The coach lighting will be electronic/florescent stuff both direct and indirect.  Will probably end up with a lot of lighting stuff, but only using a fraction of it at any given time.  CROWNS FOREVER!! 

[compedgemarine]

Old transit buses are running 12 volt flourescent fixtures. Saves the losses through the inverter and gives you the great lighting.

this brings up my question. if you are pulling all the voltage from the house batteries-i.e. the 12 volt lights and the inverter to power the 120v- which is the most efficient use of the power? I know the LED is the most efficient but after you run through the inverter are the loses enough to worry about? or would your house batteries last longer with all 12v?
steve

[ChuckMC9]

I just need to work out a good filter that'll block out stray X-10 signals and extraneous power line noise.

Be sure to test the X10 with your inverter. I have boatloads of X10 stuff that I've used in my house for decades, (literally) but the system won't work at all when powered by my cheapo inverter. I suspect that the inverter may also have fried one of the control boxes. Just FYI...

[HB of CJ]

Not quite sure what you mean, but in my case, it would probably be more efficient to run everything on the coach side (house side) thru the sine wave invertor(s), wire the coach for 110 (120) vac 60 htz and pretend the coach is just a house that rolls down the road. 

The chassis side (I confuse myself) would be left alone and would be just bus 12 vdc.  Also it might be a bit more efficient/redundant to run light coach loads thru a small dedicated sine wave invertor and leave the heavy loads for a larger sine wave invertor.

[FloridaCliff]

Old transit buses are running 12 volt flourescent fixtures. Saves the losses through the inverter and gives you the great lighting.

this brings up my question. if you are pulling all the voltage from the house batteries-i.e. the 12 volt lights and the inverter to power the 120v- which is the most efficient use of the power? I know the LED is the most efficient but after you run through the inverter are the loses enough to worry about? or would your house batteries last longer with all 12v?
steve

Steve,

Anytime you convert you take a loss in the conversion.   But the type of lighting and the lumens you get will vary greatly.

My power budget using the batteries for inverter powering works for my needs.  Of course will vary depending on fixtures and how you camp, boondock, etc....

I like the 110 VAC lighting better, The 12VDC is mainly on the road for me, but can be used when stopped.

To me using LEDs almost eliminates the need for the DC lighting, but, I want a little redundancy, just in case...

Cliff

[Dallas]

Not quite sure what you mean, but in my case, it would probably be more efficient to run everything on the coach side (house side) thru the sine wave invertor(s), wire the coach for 110 (120) vac 60 htz and pretend the coach is just a house that rolls down the road. 

The chassis side (I confuse myself) would be left alone and would be just bus 12 vdc.  Also it might be a bit more efficient/redundant to run light coach loads thru a small dedicated sine wave invertor and leave the heavy loads for a larger sine wave invertor.

Just to keep from confusing the folk that have no idea what is being talked about, NEVER, EVER,EVER,EVER, try to make your coach like a house on wheels.
There is a large difference between house wiring, ground/neutral bonding, and wiring in general.

It would be more accurate to treat your coach like a big lamp or other accesory load in  house.

When on the pole, the power draw from the bus is just like any standard lamp or drill or microwave. Just a bazillion times bigger.

When on Inverter, the bus is like a lamp or a laptop that is running off of batteries.

When on the generator the bus is like a lamp or a microwave or an electric iron being run from a self contained AC power supply, or like being powered by the pole.

Dallas

I know this is a very simplistic way of putting it, and if anyone can add to it without confusing the issue more, have at it.