Electricity needs.

Chaz · August 19, 2007, 09:20:57 AM

Hey Guys,
I'm putting in my house batteries today. (finally!!! I had to do lots of compartment preperation!

) I'm putting in 8-6v deep cycles and a 4024 inverter.
My question is- what should I prep a breaker box for? What I mean is, how much 110 will I be needing/or possible needing in the future?
I think I am going to go with as much 12v stuff as I can, ie. lighting and what ever else I can do 12v. (which I'm not sure

) But I figure I will need 110 for the convection microwave, future fridge (I have a propane one now), stereo (I think. Altho why not just use a car stereo??), TV, DVD player, etc.
What do you guys have set up?? What should I plan for??

Thanx again!!!!!!!!!!!
Chaz

Sean · August 19, 2007, 10:35:47 AM

Chaz,

You'll need at least two separate panels. One goes ahead of the inverter, between shore (and/or generator) and the inverter (let's call this the "main" panel), and the other goes downstream of the inverter (let's call this the "inverter" panel).

You did not say which 4024 you have (there are at least three different inverters with this number in the model). But for most of them, figure the inverter to be the largest draw on the main panel, at around 30to 35 amps. If you have an SW-series inverter, you will actually need to supply it with a 60-amp breaker to get the most benefit out of it, but often a 50 is used because that's the most power the shore can supply.

On the output side, a 4kw inverter can supply 30 amps continuous (actually, 33, but breakers don't come in that size) and 60 amps instantaneous. So I recommend that you use a minimum 60-amp load center for the inverter panel.

Remember that you will need a main breaker on the output of the inverter, so getting a "main breaker" load center (as opposed to a "main lug" load center) will simplify your installation. Panels with eight 1" slots, which can also be used for 16 1/2" breakers, are common and inexpensive, and may accommodate your entire installation.

You'll probably also want several slots on your main panel as well, since you may have loads you don't want to run through the inverter (such as an electric water heater, space heater, washer/dryer, etc.).

In short, I would recommend a minimum of two 60-amp load centers with eight 1" slots each. More is better, if you have the room.

HTH,

-Sean
http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com

Jerry32 · August 19, 2007, 11:49:12 AM

I also addressed 120 vac for a air compressor and an engine block heater. Jerry

Stan · August 19, 2007, 12:07:46 PM

Here is a short list of minimum number of circuits. Starting from the rear:
At least one convenience outlet in bedroom, plus a dedicated outlet for a TV.
Bedroom outlet can be connected to GFI in bathroom.
At least two circuits on kitchen counter
Circuit for fridge
Circuit for microwave
At last two circuits in main salon plus dedicated outlets for TV, Stereo etc.
One circuit above windshield.
One GFI accessible on each side in bays
One GFI circuit in engine compartment

After this minimum, you will need circuits for any thing you plan in the future, such as clothes washer, dish washer, clothes dryer (240 volts) electric water heater, central vacuum etc. etc. etc. Plan ahead because it is hard to change later.

TomCat · August 19, 2007, 12:10:09 PM

I got by with one 125 amp GE breaker panel, by splitting one bus bar halfway down. The isolated bus bar handles the inverter loads, and is fed backward through a 30amp breaker.
Then it was quite easy to install extra insulated lugs to keep the inverter neutrals, house neutrals and grounds separate.
I have lots of outlets, with everything on it's own breaker, making isolation or maintance easy.

Jay
87 SaftLiner

Chaz · August 19, 2007, 12:11:01 PM

Wow Sean,
I'm going to have to read that slowly a few times!! LOLOLOL

But I appreciate you taking the time to spell it out for me!!!!!! I'm not overly adept at this stuff, but do a bit of a backround in electricity (Navy) so I will be able to grasp it eventually.
I'm also hoping Jerry Lieber will weigh in when he can. He probably knows more about my bus than I do!!! He is a weath of info. And the fact that he knows my bus makes my life and the taxation on my brain

allot easier!!! lolol
I'm mounting the inverter as we speak and want to make sure I have enough room to make the installation of the inverter and boxes look nice. (sorry, it's artist in me!

) I already know from Jerry that I need somewhere around 3" of space around it for circulation. I think I may even incorporate a small fan.
And Thank You Jerry32!!! I hadn't thought of those and both of those are important to me. That is some of the info I hope some other Busnuts" can offer here!!! It will be nice to make a list of that stuff and maybe even make this a "sticky".

Thanx again,
Chaz

Chaz · August 19, 2007, 12:14:00 PM

I was late with my last response, but those are both VERY good pieces of info for me guys!! That helps allot!
But I'm a little in the dark on what you did Tomcat. That too will take a little thinking on my part!

Sincerly,
Chaz

TomCat · August 19, 2007, 01:56:40 PM

Quote from: Chaz on August 19, 2007, 12:14:00 PM
But I'm a little in the dark on what you did Tomcat. That too will take a little thinking on my part!

http://www.zoto.com/site/#USR.jsbird69::PAG.detail::0a529713bcd40647ecf9ed7746d1f539

Chaz,

Although I wound up using a Xantrex RS3000 inverter, instead of the Heart, at the present time my 120v and inverter is wired as in install option 7 in the pic.
That leaves the entire left bus bar, and the top half of the right one for non-inverter loads. In my case, that is ACs, heated floors, toekick heaters, and few outlets.

Jay
87 SaftLiner

DrivingMissLazy · August 19, 2007, 02:06:28 PM

Chaz, I do not believe anyone has mentioned circuits for Air Conditioning. That would be pretty important to me. LOL
Richard

jjrbus · August 19, 2007, 03:34:34 PM

Chaz, if you can line your battery compartment walls out of something non metalic, it may make your work a little less shocking

Jerry Liebler · August 19, 2007, 03:35:48 PM

Chaz,
I must respectfully disagree with Sean. There is no need for a load center ahead of the inverter. Each of the inputs to the inverter, however does need to be protected by an appropriate circuit breaker. One of the input breakers can be a 2 pole 50 amp unit for a 50 amp shore cord which can do double duty as the required disconnect. The generator input will usually be protected by a breaker on the generator or a breaker of no more than 60 amps will need to be added if the generator doesn't have one. I chose not to use a load center but use a main breaker in a separate enclosure feeding a sub panel for distribution.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120

Sean · August 19, 2007, 04:41:55 PM

That's what I like about Jerry -- when he disagrees with me, it's always "respectfully"

Actually, we are talking off-line, and we actually agree more than disagree.

No "panel" is needed upstream of the inverter -- as long as there is 60-amp protection (which may be provided by the shore breaker and/or generator mains). However, my recommendation to put one in still stands, if you want to simplify putting in non-inverter loads in an all-120 coach. And, I consider a box with nothing in it but main breakers to be a "panel" anyway, and it's a good idea to have at least this much in place, to provide a separate disconnect means for the inverter.

The other way to do inverter vs. non-inverter loads, and cut down your parts count a bit, is to use one leg of a 4-wire panel for the output of the inverter, and the other leg for non-inverter loads. On a single-side shore supply, you will tie the two legs together in the dog-bone anyway.

-Sean
http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com