L10 engine info

[mikelutestanski]

hello;   Another attempt to post pix about L10 mechanical engines so this time I am going to post the pictures and write later     these are mechanical L10 engines . One is out of a Gilleg and was a transverse mount setup. The original bus frame has been made into an engine stand.
     The other is out of an Orion I T drive  bus 
    Thanks mike

[mikelutestanski]

Hello Again   try for another pix mike

[mikelutestanski]

Last pix

[TomC]

The one good thing about the L10 is that it is mechanically injected (very reliable).  The bad part is that you can only get 335hp and about 950lb/ft torque out of it.  The M11 and ISM are virtually the same on the outside, but can get up to 500hp and 1550lb/ft torque-that's over 50% more! Just pointing this out.  Good Luck, TomC

[skipn]

Mike,

    Now that you have the picture posting taken care of it will be fun (and educational) to have pictures as you go to install.

  Thanks
Skip

[mikelutestanski]

  Skip     Yes we will take pictures and post.      Remember the discussion about the heater lines coming from the rear of the engine left side and the size of the outlet.   
   As it turns out these two engines have a different size outlet. The Gilleg has a 1/2 npt outlet and the Orion has a 3/4 npt outlet. The water plate steel cover on the side has a different part number . If you need more water the bigger opening is better one would surmise.  The Orion bus T motor has an MP circulator pump feeding the heater circuits.
     If you need more info about your Cummins engine you can join Cummins quik-serv on the web and for 50.00 per year you can input 5 engine serial numbers and you will get the originating data for that engine. parts and service topics are also available. A list of available publications is also included. Upgrade options are also available .  I am new to diesel engines so I read as much as possible to keep myself out of trouble.  Does not always work but thats life...   
     I believe the Gilleg engine looks like the engine that was transplanted into your bus . Mainly because of the front mount and the fan hub . So it may have been a transverse mount...    unless it came out of a truck .  The cpl will tell; it is on the Pt pump first three or four numbers. If it is 1994 then it came from a bus.  Enough for now       mike

[NJT 5573]

If you have a mechanical L10 with a PT pump, its easy and cheap to set it up to pull.

[mikelutestanski]

 Please explain with further detail. about setting up the engine.   I am interested.   I think I want to be around 300 hp. What needs to be done with the injectors if anything?
      My limiting factor is the B400R tranny . It is rated at 295 gross hp 870 ft lbs of torque. I have no way of knowing how conservative the rating is and Allison will not provide any more details. 
      Thanks   mike

[belfert]

Please explain with further detail. about setting up the engine.   I am interested.   I think I want to be around 300 hp. What needs to be done with the injectors if anything?
      My limiting factor is the B400R tranny . It is rated at 295 gross hp 870 ft lbs of torque. I have no way of knowing how conservative the rating is and Allison will not provide any more details. 
     

Allison's web site shows the B400 as taking up to 300 Hp and 925 lbs torque.  Not much difference, but every little bit helps. 

I'm not sure where Allison is trying to position the B400.  The B400 is barely rated higher than the B300, yet the B500 is much higher rated than the B400.  I'm suprised the B400 isn't rated at closer to 350Hp and 1,000 lbs or more torque.

Brian

[TomC]

Remember we have motorhomes now, not buses. So you can use the MH series.  The 3000MH (which is basically the same box as the B400) is rated at 400hp and 1200lb/ft torque.  This is the transmission I would use with the L10.  Our duty cycle is no where near what a normal bus is, so that's what Allison considers when rating different transmission classes.  The only real external difference between a B400 and 3000MH is that the B400 most likely has a low profile oil pan-of which you can buy for the 3000MH also, if needed.  Good Luck, TomC

[belfert]

Remember we have motorhomes now, not buses. So you can use the MH series.  The 3000MH (which is basically the same box as the B400) is rated at 400hp and 1200lb/ft torque.  This is the transmission I would use with the L10.  Our duty cycle is no where near what a normal bus is, so that's what Allison considers when rating different transmission classes.  The only real external difference between a B400 and 3000MH is that the B400 most likely has a low profile oil pan-of which you can buy for the 3000MH also, if needed.  Good Luck, TomC

I'm assuming Mike already has the B400 tranny in hand and so he has to use that.

Brian

[TomC]

If Mike already has the B400, I would call Allison and find out what it would take to get their approval for higher horsepower.  I don't think that would be a problem.  The B400 is based on the old MD3066 which had a bigger torque converter from the factory.

Just for an example-I talked to S&J precision tool that did my V730 transmission overhaul since the V730 is rated at 285hp and 750lb/ft of torque, and I'm now putting out 375hp and 1125lb/ft of torque.  They said it shouldn't be a problem as they have seen some 4106 owners pump up their 8V-71TA's up to 450hp and 1350lb/ft torque (with 90 injectors) with no problems either.  Good Luck, TomC

[mikelutestanski]

Hello         I have talked with Allison and they refuse to budge on the torque/horsepower issue. I will go back and try again.  Maybe I did not explain fully my type of use which is not transit service; which may be harder on a tranny than regular road service?   And you are also right about having the b400 including all the wiring sensors etc.   I bought two 89 Orion 1 buses that have L10/B400R combos.     I believe they were factory upgrades for the engine but that is a guess.
         THanks for all the info  I appreciate the discussion      mike       

[NJT 5573]

Mike, you don't need to change injectors, just some inexpensive pump parts.

[buswarrior]

Mike.

Allison won't budge, just go for it and make very sure you design in enough cooling to quickly deal with worst case heat output. Remember that the retarder is capable of making a small bonfire in there!

A busnut is not likely to do abusive things to their driveline, so a little "overloading" only becomes an issue if it also is overheated in the process.

Many busnuts install a seperate oil to air cooler ahead of the stock oil to coolant to shed the heat before it tries to dump into the radiator, which is already trying to deal with the engine heat.

happy coaching!
buswarrior