Pre-purchase inspection - what do you guys think?

[JT4SC]

Hey guys,

I got the 2004 E4500 inspected, and I've attached the findings to this message. 

Would love your opinions!!  On Monday I will talk to the people who did the inspection, so any advice would be appreciated.   Thanks!

[luvrbus]

That  is not too bad for 22 year old bus,the manifolds give you problems ,what I don't like about the inspection a scan wasn't done on the engine and transmission checking for codes and the cause, and it wasn't test driven .The tag axle tire wear is a concern it probably need attention the king pin wear if your handy with wrenches and the price is right you make the call but using a shop at $200.00 a hour  could run up 1000's of dollars. All you got was visual you take jacks to a bus inspection, with the water filter crack from freezing I would check freezing point on the engine if it checks out negotiate you a price you will not find a 22 year bus that don't need attention         

[JT4SC]

That  is not too bad for 22 year old bus,the manifolds give you problems ,what I don't like about the inspection a scan wasn't done on the engine and transmission checking for codes and the cause, and it wasn't test driven .The tag axle tire wear is a concern it probably need attention the king pin wear if your handy with wrenches and the price is right you make the call but using a shop at $200.00 a hour  could run up 1000's of dollars. All you got was visual you take jacks to a bus inspection, with the water filter crack from freezing I would check freezing point on the engine if it checks out negotiate you a price you will not find a 22 year bus that don't need attention       

Thanks Cliff!  I specifically asked for the codes to be read, so I expect that to be done on Monday.  What do you mean when you say check the freezing point on the engine?   

[JT4SC]

Quick update - the mechanics shop is going to give me an estimate on the repairs, but they said they can't diagnose or repair the low ride fault light that shows up on the dash.  Is there a typical issue that would trigger a ride fault light to show up?

[windtrader]

It seems like this bus was not maintained and the shop wrote up what it could check visually. I would never buy a bus unless the basic running gear is fully checked out - engine, transmission, etc. If you are getting a shop estimate to repair and service all these items, it is going to be.a huge number. Find one that was cared for and well maintained.

[JT4SC]

It seems like this bus was not maintained and the shop wrote up what it could check visually. I would never buy a bus unless the basic running gear is fully checked out - engine, transmission, etc. If you are getting a shop estimate to repair and service all these items, it is going to be.a huge number. Find one that was cared for and well maintained.

Hi Don, thanks for your post, I appreciate it!!  I'm concerned of all the issues, but I also think if I get this bus down to $35K it would still be a good deal all things considered (I'm currently "in escrow" at $45K).  It would then be my job to find a reasonably priced mechanic to fix the majority of these issues, but I readily admit that's not going to be easy thing to do . 

I'm waiting on all the fault codes and engine/tranny oil analysis, as soon as I have them I'll post those results here. 

[luvrbus]

Quick update - the mechanics shop is going to give me an estimate on the repairs, but they said they can't diagnose or repair the low ride fault light that shows up on the dash.  Is there a typical issue that would trigger a ride fault light to show up?

It is just low on 1 corner MCI has service bulletins on adjusting the ride height for the light to go off that is no biggie, problems with hydraulic steering on the tag will cause the light to stay on also. They read the ground clearance from the body you can air the bus up and measure the 4 corners and it will tell you the low corner it is the front most of the time because of the kneeling system or tag axle steering. I would check the tag axle steering close that is a expensive repair on the J's     

[luvrbus]

Thanks Cliff!  I specifically asked for the codes to be read, so I expect that to be done on Monday.  What do you mean when you say check the freezing point on the engine?   

If it comes back with CID code FMI 0 you need to pass on it ,the C-13  was known for overheating taking out the head ,and liners and pistons

[JT4SC]

If it comes back with CID code FMI 0 you need to pass on it ,the C-13  was known for overheating taking out the head ,and liners and pistons

Thanks Cliff, I will post the findings here when they come in.  This is a C-12 engine, so hopefully it will be ok we'll see. 

[luvrbus]

The C-12 is good engine but it will keep you busy keeping up with the oil leaks, but most are an easy fix ,the early models had head gasket problems till Cat solved it

[JT4SC]

Hi guys,

Attached is a pic of what showed up in the engine codes.  I'm concerned about the low boost pressure code and the rated engine power derate code. 
Also the engine oil analysis came back high in potassium, which I've asked for clarification on what exactly that means.   Tranny oil analysis was good. 

Any advise would be greatly appreciated!!!!

[luvrbus]

High levels of potassium in oil is from coolant that is a killer on that engine  low boost pressure can be caused by fuel filters cracked CAC to a bad turbo and a derate can occur with just low coolant. Me I would pass unless they foot the bill to find where the coolant is coming from because it is probably going to need head work and all new bearings for the mains and rods, Cat will not work on the C=12 with high potassium without pulling the pan and changing all bearings, you are probably looking at 8 to 10 k in repairs at Cat for the potassium cause alone. One good thing the seller didn't change the oil and try to hide it.   Bummer I know you like that bus you can still make a deal it can be repaired just be sure you know that is going to cost. With my C-12 in equipment I just had Cat exchange the engine for downtime reasons at a cost of $27,000 the C-10  had the same problems   

[JT4SC]

Thanks Cliff, yes that's very unfortunate. What is interesting is the sodium level was normal, so my understanding is both high potassium in high sodium need to show up in the report to confirm it's coolant. Is that not accurate? I have attached the report here for you to check out.

[luvrbus]

Thanks Cliff, yes that's very unfortunate. What is interesting is the sodium level was normal, so my understanding is both high potassium in high sodium need to show up in the report to confirm it's coolant. Is that not accurate? I have attached the report here for you to check out.

With the OAT (organic) antifreeze seldom will high sodium show up it also depends on were  the oil for test was taken the Cat-12 should have a oil sampling test port you cannot test using the drain plug on the pan ? who preformed the test there other thing that raise the potassium like the silicone RTV some use on gaskets ,pull another sample and take it to CAT they can tell you what brand of oil was used and tell if it coolant or not causing  the problem CAT is not that expense for testing it is the only place I go for testing   

[JT4SC]

With the OAT (organic) antifreeze seldom will high sodium show up it also depends on were  the oil for test was taken the Cat-12 should have a oil sampling test port you cannot test using the drain plug on the pan ? who preformed the test there other thing that raise the potassium like the silicone RTV some use on gaskets ,pull another sample and take it to CAT they can tell you what brand of oil was used and tell if it coolant or not causing  the problem CAT is not that expense for testing it is the only place I go for testing

Got it, I will ask where they took the sample from.  Thanks Cliff