Rear main seal leaking bad - Thinking about a change to a 12.7 Series 60 engine

[luvrbus]

I am sure you contact a truck salvage yard they will have dozens  of the P ,non EGR may be a little harder to find

[freds]

I am sure you contact a truck salvage yard they will have dozens  of the P ,non EGR may be a little harder to find

Watch out for rotation, some trucks are backwards from buses.

[CrabbyMilton]

If your mind is made up so be it. Have you considered a CUMMINS for a repower? I think they offered that engine as optional equipment back then so it would likely snap into place.

[belfert]

If your mind is made up so be it. Have you considered a CUMMINS for a repower? I think they offered that engine as optional equipment back then so it would likely snap into place.

I don't believe the Dina Viaggo ever had a Cummins engine option, at least not the model sold in the USA.  The MCI F3500 (A Dina with MCI nameplate) had a Cummins, but a smaller Cummins.

It is reasonably straight forward to stick a 12.7 Series 60 in there as the block is the same size externally and everything is in the same place.  Switching to a Cummins would make this into a very expensive multi-year project as the the coach would need to be rewired, motor mounts fabricated, new exhaust and intake made, and probably a new drive shaft too.

[belfert]

I looked closer at the oil leak issue yesterday evening.  It appears it may not be the rear main seal leaking.  It looks like Dina installed a braided hose where the the oil pressure sender attaches so they could run up to a manifold to install multiple oil pressure senders.  That braided hose may be leaking, but I need to take a closer look.  It would be much easier to replace a hose versus the rear main seal.

One of my friends on my trip is a heavy duty diesel mechanic.  He looked at things and thought the rear main seal leak may have gotten a lot worse.

[CrabbyMilton]

I don't believe the Dina Viaggo ever had a Cummins engine option, at least not the model sold in the USA.  The MCI F3500 (A Dina with MCI nameplate) had a Cummins, but a smaller Cummins.

It is reasonably straight forward to stick a 12.7 Series 60 in there as the block is the same size externally and everything is in the same place.  Switching to a Cummins would make this into a very expensive multi-year project as the the coach would need to be rewired, motor mounts fabricated, new exhaust and intake made, and probably a new drive shaft too.

You're probably right but I have a DINA brochure deep in a box somewhere that I would need a day to dig out. Never mind me I'm just the resident CUMMINS stockholder here.
Yes it makes logical sense to keep the same engine so it just bolts in. DETROIT did the right thing by designing the S60 to fit regardless of size.

[thomasinnv]

Try these guys. They have several low mile engines from New Jersey transit busses. I bought a 12.7 with 26k on a complete overhaul for 6500 about 5 or 6 years ago. That's not even fully broken in yet.

http://fowlersautowrecking.com/

[belfert]

You're probably right but I have a DINA brochure deep in a box somewhere that I would need a day to dig out. Never mind me I'm just the resident CUMMINS stockholder here.
Yes it makes logical sense to keep the same engine so it just bolts in. DETROIT did the right thing by designing the S60 to fit regardless of size.

Even if there had been a Cummins option I wouldn't have any idea where to get all the pieces to install a Cummins in my bus.  It would still be a much bigger project than another Series 60.  I would need to do major electrical work to get it working.  I don't have an issue with Cummins, but there is not enough advantage in my mind to go through the cost and labor to install one.

The wiring diagrams I have only show the Series 60, and no other engine option.  The only option they show is for the Series 60 with I think the HT755 transmission before they switched to the B500.

[belfert]

Try these guys. They have several low mile engines from New Jersey transit busses. I bought a 12.7 with 26k on a complete overhaul for 6500 about 5 or 6 years ago. That's not even fully broken in yet.

http://fowlersautowrecking.com/

Right now, if I buy an engine the leading candidate is an American Fleet rebuild with 20K miles in a 1996 Prevost that is being parted out.  JD Dickinson has it locally here in Minnesota.  I just left a message asking if the $7,500 includes removal from the coach.  I know that transit agencies like to waste money on things like engine rebuilds.  They'll have engines rebuilt and put on the shelf even though they know that the buses with that engine type are being retired inside of a year.

I talked to Fowler's too.  All of their Series 60 engines are still in buses.  They are going to call me when they have some pulled out and tested.

[luvrbus]

Even if there had been a Cummins option I wouldn't have any idea where to get all the pieces to install a Cummins in my bus.  It would still be a much bigger project than another Series 60.  I would need to do major electrical work to get it working.  I don't have an issue with Cummins, but there is not enough advantage in my mind to go through the cost and labor to install one.

The wiring diagrams I have only show the Series 60, and no other engine option.  The only option they show is for the Series 60 with I think the HT755 transmission before they switched to the B500.

Stick with series 60,I loved my ISX 15 Cummins but the Cummins service is lousy ,they charge $250.00 a hour for RV work and it takes 3 months to get a appointment and if is over 20 years old forget it.Cummins being the only option for diesel RV now they rape you  lol and do not take a Onan QT like I had there for service it took 3 weeks for them just to look at it and other month to replace a sensor for 1100 bucks, my 2008 ISX used a fuel lift pump you can buy it almost anywhere for 300 bucks,$1000.00 labor and $2800.00 for the pump that was my last visit to Cummins

[belfert]

Stick with series 60,I loved my ISX 15 Cummins but the Cummins service is lousy ,they charge $250.00 a hour for RV work and it takes 3 months to get a appointment and if is over 20 years old forget it.Cummins being the only option for diesel RV now they rape you  lol and do not take a Onan QT like I had there for service it took 3 weeks for them just to look at it and other month to replace a sensor for 1100 bucks, my 2008 ISX used a fuel lift pump you can buy it almost anywhere for 300 bucks,$1000.00 labor and $2800.00 for the pump that was my last visit to Cummins

Interstate Companies is the local Detroit dealer.  They operate both I-State truck and Interstate Power.  I-State Truck was charging $169 to work on a motorhome and $129 to work on a truck over a decade ago.  I imagine they are over $200 an hour now for motorhomes.  I needed last minute brake work and it was the only place open evenings that JD at C&J Bus Repair knew about.  (None of JD's guys wanted to work overtime that day.)  It turned out they charged me the truck rate since my bus didn't need the floor covered.

If I need work on my Series 60 or Allison B500 like programming that only a Detroit dealer can do I normally go to Interstate Power instead of I-State Truck.  Interstate Power mostly does work on engines and transmissions.  The only issue is they are at least a 100 mile round trip for me.  I am on the far northern end of the metro area and Interstate is at the far southern end of the metro area.

[belfert]

It turns out the leak was actually an oil hose right above the bell housing.  DINA built their own little oil manifold in order to feed two oil pressure senders.  One for rear and one for dash.  They ran a one foot hose from a port on the engine to the manifold.  The hose was leaking.

The hose was replaced the Monday after the bus got home from my trip.  I drove the bus about 120 miles two weekends ago and no further evidence of an oil leak.

[plyonsMC9]

Brian, that's a great outcome.  A lot nicer than an engine swap.  Celebrating the good news with you. 

Best Regards, Phil

[Busted Knuckle]

Brian just an FYI, your trans can be pulled w/o the engine coming out. Back when were still in business another driver an I were on a 2 bus charter together I was in one of the Setra's an he was in the Dina. I took off at a light and notice he just sat there. As I reached for my phone it rang and Bill says "Boss this thing just revs up and won't go anywhere!"
I told him hang tight I'll be right back. I told the principal who was on my bus we got a problem, I need to go back and check on that other bus. So I whip thru an empty lot and went past him turned around, pulled up behind him with my flashers on. I jumped out opened the rear hatch, and curbside door and looked everything over as good as I could. I looked under it and made sure the drive shaft was still connected and had him shift to drive (he'd already put it in N while waiting on me) and the shift pad wouldn't work. I don't recall what the pad showed, but it would not do anything.
By this time the principle and other chaperones were standing near us on the sidewalk and I told them the bad news is, "The bad news is that bus ain't going nowhere w/o a tow truck, the worst news is we don't have another bus available and as far as I know no other bus company in the area has anything available because they've all been calling me for one today, but the good news is we are only a few mins away from the school. I can take my group back to the school, unload and come back for the rest!"
Of course I started getting the 1000 questions how, when, why yada yada yada. It was a trip to Six Flags Amusement Park near St. Louis and I told them I was sorry, but there was NO WAY I could get 2 bus loads up there today, but as soon as they could schedule it for a different day I would take them.
Well I didn't feel comfortable leaving them in the lane of traffic and I had a small chain in the tool compartment of my Setra, so I pulled in front of it and we pulled up to the empty lot I'd spun around in an I told Bill to let them know I'd be right back.
I took them to the school where as we were unloading I started getting bombarded with questions again. I told them let me go get the other kids and we'll talk when I get back. I raced back to the other bus we loaded the other kids on my bus and I told Bill wait here I'll be back soon.
I got back to the school and before I could get out the door I was getting 1000 questions, yelled at and even threatened but the principle, teachers and parents! I took the principle aside and explained we can't control break dons and as rare as they are they do happen.
The principle finally "sorta" understood, and agreed we'd talk about it when I got back to the office.
As I was getting back on the bus I was still getting yelled at by some parents!
Before I could even call the office and let my sister know what was going on she was getting calls threatening lawsuits and even got told by the principle herself "Well y'all should have a back up plan for when things like this happen!"
Anyway I got back to the bus and had Bill shut down the bus and come with me. I don't remember why but I told him to start it back up and we could hear the started spinning, but the engine wasn't turning over. I immediately thought the worst! I thought the crank had busted as I recently heard of someone else that had one bust. So I called my buddy that managed our local Detroit/Allison dealer and told him what was going on and I was going to have it towed to him. I told him I know y'all are probably covered up, but I really need to know what we're looking at as soon as you can. He assured me that he'd have it dropped in a bay and would check it out personally check it as soon as it was "off the hook."
Sure enough a couple hrs later he asked me are ya sitting down. Again I thought the worst and he told me "Well, yer in luck, it's only a broken flex plate. We'll have it it off and ready when the new one gets here in the morning, should have ya back on the road by lunch!"
Well like he said it was ready by noon. And it cost less to repair than the wrecker bill!
So I know the trans can come out w/o the engine.
  BK