Two Kinds of Coaches (Pushers and Pullers)

[sandra@BCM]

When choosing between a front and rear engine in a bus conversion, it is essential to consider their strengths and weaknesses concerning your financial situation and travel plans. Both bus designs have their pros and cons.

 
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[Iceni John]

Most Crown owners, and some Gillig and other owners, would dispute the title of this thread!   There are some mid-engine buses, not as many as in Europe where they were not uncommon until recently, with their engines laid almost on their side under the floor behind the front axle.   (Yes, I know that technically mid-engines are pullers, but don't tell that to a Crown owner...)   Because the engine and transmission occupy prime real estate under the floor, they've never been popular for serious full conversions, but determined and imaginative owners always solve those problems.   One big plus side of mid-engine buses is their handling:  they can corner almost as fast as most cars because much of their weight is down low and between the wheels, so driving a bus like that is fun!

John 

[Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM]

Most Crown owners, and some Gillig and other owners, would dispute the title of this thread!   There are some mid-engine buses, not as many as in Europe where they were not uncommon until recently, with their engines laid almost on their side under the floor behind the front axle.   (Yes, I know that technically mid-engines are pullers, but don't tell that to a Crown owner...)   Because the engine and transmission occupy prime real estate under the floor, they've never been popular for serious full conversions, but determined and imaginative owners always solve those problems.   One big plus side of mid-engine buses is their handling:  they can corner almost as fast as most cars because much of their weight is down low and between the wheels, so driving a bus like that is fun!

John

Good point John, however as you mentioned, a mid-engine is in front of the rear drive wheels, so technically, it is pulling the rear axle forward as it pushes the suspension along taking the bus along with it. Maybe we should call it a pull-pusher?   

[CrabbyMilton]

Well there were a few odd ball buses over the years that had front wheel drive and then there are those that are pulled by a tractor so any bus with rear drive is " pusher" regardless of engine placement.

[dtcerrato]

We've used out four down toad to push the bus when it's pusher couldn't wouldn't do it!
Got a name for that?  We refer to it as the goose. 

[luvrbus]

Pusher are a lot easier to work on for sure than the others 3 hours you can have a engine out where you can work on it.On the GM's with 8v71  I just tilt one  by removing the 2 rear hangers to change the upper head, replacing a starter on the  GM V drive 8v71 can suck though. The pusher are  quite up front you can even talk to one another or listen to music, FC buses are loud you use sign language. Years ago Sonja and I owned a forward  control Blue Bird with a 3208 Cat engine never again

[sandra@BCM]

I want to remind everyone the title says "Coaches" not buses.

I do not think Crown and Gillig are coaches.

[Iceni John]

I want to remind everyone the title says "Coaches" not buses.

I do not think Crown and Gillig are coaches.

Crown made more than a few two- and three-axle highway coaches with mid-mount Cummins and occasionally Detroit engines and with full air suspension, and even some Scenicruiser-esque hi-lo floor coaches, used for city sightseeing (e.g. Tanner Gray Line) and for some national parks, and for the US Atomic Energy Commission in Idaho.   Gillig made some mid-engine highway coaches for Northern California agencies such as Golden Gate Transit and Marin Airporter, and like Crown's highway coaches they had recliner seats, with some even having loos at the back.   There's even a beautifully-restored Crown three-axle highway coach (with a mid-mounted Big-Cam Cummins 290) still operating for Lassen Modoc Express in Northern California:  I saw it a few years ago when it was driven to SoCal for one of the Crown Coach Junkies' get-togethers in Phelan.

Yes, Crown and Gillig were deservedly famous for their excellent school buses, but they made much more than just them:  they also made Highway Post Offices for the USPS, delivery trucks for Wedgewood and others, combination truck buses ('brucks') for railroads and others, outside broadcast camera buses for TV networks and broadcasters (Red Skelton had three Crowns for his RED-EO company in Hollywood), pumper and ladder fire trucks, ambulance buses for the US military, jail buses for Sheriff Depts., air-conditioned (before WW2!) long-distance sleeper coaches, articulated bendy-buses for some cities, and the list goes on!

This article has lots of interesting info about Crown:  http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/c/crown_coach/crown_coach2.htm

John

[luvrbus]

Gillig made chassis for several RV manufactures, Country Coach, Newell, Vouge and Monaco used Gillig till they stopped making the chassis, then they went to building their own chassis from the ground up copying a lot of design from Gillig,the Country Coach Concept even looks like Gillig with the Stainless rib siding.Gillig has long history with the higher end RV pushers .I  never have saw a Crown chassis in a manufactured rv  but there  are ton of Gillig still beating the pavement in RV's

[Iceni John]

I  never have saw a Crown chassis in a manufactured rv  but there  are ton of Gillig still beating the pavement in RV's

Crown made some chassis for Vogue motorhomes, with Cat 3208s or 6V92s in the rear.   It's rumored that maybe they also made a few chassis for other motorhome manufacturers, but nobody knows for sure.

John

[luvrbus]

Crown made some chassis for Vogue motorhomes, with Cat 3208s or 6V92s in the rear.   It's rumored that maybe they also made a few chassis for other motorhome manufacturers, but nobody knows for sure.

John

Crown had to make chassis for Vouge before they left California and Mitchel bought Vouge I never saw a Crown chassis at the Vouge  plant in Pryor Ok plant, I did see some Spartan diesel chassis for the smaller RVs  along with John Deere gasoline pushers with the 460 Ford ,the 40 and 45 ft chassis were built by Mitchel in house with Cat engines