Urea shortage now 2 stroke could be back

[chessie4905]

Course supply is getting low. 10$ increase per 2.5 gallon container will end the shortage. Nothing new here.

[luvrbus]

I'd love to see what you're putting in that engine. Everything I'm seeing online about DEF, including the Fleetguard product, is 32.5% urea.

https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/sites/default/files/LT36613.pdf

That what I am saying if you cannot find it on Goggle it doesn't happen read and see how the system works they been getting away from urea for the past 5 years it's in all the trucking magazines lol but not google yet I guess

[richard5933]

If you're talking about the fact that people are trying to get by with DEF substitutes, then yes, some are. People are trying. Not sure if I'd go as far as to say that every independent is getting around the DEF requirement though. When I was driving I saw plenty of owner-operators filling their DEF tanks at the pump. Perhaps they didn't get the memo you're talking about.

All this doesn't change the fact that for the most part urea is a key ingredient in keeping modern Diesel engines running. At least till another commercial alternative shows up.

[luvrbus]

Has not a thing to do with the engine running it is all to do with the exhaust . The engine is programmed to reduce power if the def tank is low truckers  can bypass that sensor and keep on driving and they do

[Dave5Cs]

Well some may not read trucker Magazines, LOL I read an article I did not write it, LOL

[Tedsoldbus]

Thank you LUVRBUS for being my mentor yet again. Diesel Exhaust Fluid. I feel lucky not to need it....yet....but I did not know what DEF meant. I should probably just be glad I don't need it. So now...what does it do? If I pee in a bottle of distilled water and put it in my bus, will my 6V92 produce less smoke, less bad fumes, or will it just seize my engine?
I remember what it smelled like when I was a kid and we peed on the campfire to put it out. I hate to think urea cooked by a Cummins will smell like that. We were told catalytic converters cooked car fumes to help make the air better, but they smell of sulfur? So now if we smell sulfur and cooked pee when we are rolling down the highway, it means the air is cleaner? Seriously though, curious what the benefit is supposed to be.

[bobofthenorth]

There's plenty of urea made in North America - fortunately - because China isn't exporting any right now.  The price of fertilizer urea has more than doubled in the last year and no sign of it backing off yet.  Putin is strangling Europe's access to Nat Gas which is the only raw ingredient needed to make urea.  Despite record high prices some European nitrogen plants are shut down because of the cost of gas.

[oldmansax]

I'm adding a little weird info to this thread.

From the '50s through the '70s, we owned a commercial egg production. We were approached by an outfit that wanted the chicken manure to pelletize and feed to hogs. Egg producing chickens are not real good at extracting the nutrients from the feed so their manure still has a lot of nutrients in it. Back then, the value of the manure for feed was determined by how much UREA it contained. We donated manure to them for a while and considered a joint effort to build a processing plant for a larger operation. However, the permitting, costs of plant, logistics, etc could not be worked out so it never happened. I do know that feeding chicken manure obtained from commercial egg producing chickens does work. I don't know that it ever caught on large scale. One of the other things discussed at the time was the public's reaction to eating pork raised on manure.

TOM

[luvrbus]

Urea shortage won't affect trucking they may try and sell the idea,there are to many ways around it,lol the price of R/O water and some plastic's will probably go up 

[6805eagleguy]

All this doesn't change the fact that for the most part urea is a key ingredient in keeping modern Diesel engines running. At least till another commercial alternative shows up.

depends on who you are 

[richard5933]

What you guys are talking about for independent truckers might work for the short term. But, the vast majority of trucks on the road right now are fleet owned, and fleet owners are not going to be happy having drivers disabling systems or using unapproved alternatives.

A similar but still telling situation is the recent problem that many Class A RVs have been having with failing DEF sensors leaving rigs stranded or unusable. There was a serious shortage of replacement parts, and for the first many months, there was no viable alternative or workaround for most of the owners of these coaches. In spite of many wanting to disable the system or do a workaround, doing so either wasn't possible or would invalidate the warranty on a very expensive rig.

It's not so easy nowadays to just thumb your nose at the way these things are designed to operate.

[6805eagleguy]

What you guys are talking about for independent truckers might work for the short term. But, the vast majority of trucks on the road right now are fleet owned, and fleet owners are not going to be happy having drivers disabling systems or using unapproved alternatives.

A similar but still telling situation is the recent problem that many Class A RVs have been having with failing DEF sensors leaving rigs stranded or unusable. There was a serious shortage of replacement parts, and for the first many months, there was no viable alternative or workaround for most of the owners of these coaches. In spite of many wanting to disable the system or do a workaround, doing so either wasn't possible or would invalidate the warranty on a very expensive rig.

It's not so easy nowadays to just thumb your nose at the way these things are designed to operate.

yes. fleets have to be a nightmare to maintain now with dpf related problems

[Jim Blackwood]

Just as soon as everything is running on fairy farts it'll be problem solved.

Jim

[luvrbus]

You can bet before fleets let Urea shut the system down they will delate the system with the EPA blessing,you have trucks and buses running the highways here now from Mexico without the system,it is just a exspensive exhaust after treatment
 

[bronson]

Service manager at international dealer said approval has been given for a work around on def sensors that are presently not obtainable .