Bus Mystery

[dtcerrato]

A long time ago I was told by an old timer that 4104 buses had a ballast in between the corrugated double layered floor below the baggage compartments. His explanation claimed that it was to lower the center of gravity which was a critical aspect in the case where a bus may have a full passenger load but little or no weight in the luggage compartments. Has anyone ever heard this subject matter? I' ve known this almost as long as we've owned the bus but never gave it any thought until today when I made an opening penetrating the luggage bay floor prepping for installation of a diesel air heater. I wasn't surprised as I remembered the ballast conversation. It's not sand, it's more like silica - very fine like powder and filled to capacity in an area where no chance of it getting there after manufacture. The photos made a true believer out of me, how about you?

[BusNit]

Well, I certainly learned something new! When we were young and dumb, after school we rode the Flxible buses home. There was a sharp turn where the driver would keep the speed up as it was about a mile and a half between stops. Us dumb kids would all lean over to the right side where the bus was leaning and try to tip it! The G forces really made you think that bus was gonna end up on three wheels but never did. Now we know why! LOL

[Tedsoldbus]

Is your bus from Mexico? Looks like cocaine to me......

[dtcerrato]

Lol. I'm coming to a conclusion that it is in fact vermiculite! Used in construction for fire proofing and lightning up concrete among other things like gardening. A ballast - not so much. Insulation +/or sound deadening - more like it. Pre & post WWll GM buses have been noted to have vermiculite in encased voids. It's still a mystery until I can find some kind of documentation though.

[BusNit]

Wouldn't damp vermiculite create rotting from the inside out from humidity? I guess sand would too.

[dtcerrato]

Great question. Just finished a 1600 mile road trip with all but one day rain heavy at times with puddling. The vermiculite in the corrugation voids was bone dry when I exposed it with the penetration - answer to the question.
Wonder if it acts as a desiccate but was glad to see it dry. Another nice observation was that the entire bottom aluminum corrugation under the luggage compartments is totally covered with a real thick layer of undercoating. Not like the aerosol crap you buy today but 1/8" hard tar! Impressive. After 42 years of ownership I'm still learning & loving the ole' girl - wifey too! for that matter. 

[richard5933]

Dan - Just dawned on me that perhaps you should be cautious around that stuff  until you know exactly what it is. If it was put there during that time period in manufacturing to serve any type of insulation purpose there's a good chance it contains asbestos fibers. With the consistency of it, it would be a really good idea to wear a suitable respirator when handing it. Would be interesting to see it tested to see just what's in it.

Maybe Luke would have information on what the stuff is?

[luvrbus]

Not all the 4104 had that
its on some Greyhound even the 4106 I was told it was part of a insulation package with blankets that fit. the 1 bay who knows

[Utahclaimjumper]

I have also seen some GM intercity coaches with solid concrete in the spare wheel bay,,( in front of the front axle )  theses units had the 6V92NA engines and autos..>>>Dan  I have a neighbor who  drove one of these professionally,, and owns it today.)

[dtcerrato]

@Richard 10-4 on carcinogens. Not only possible but very prevalent in the times of early manufacture. I'm personally in class action suites pertaining to asbestosis aka mesothelioma through occupational hazzard. It's encased again as it should be.
Thus why info is very sketchy at best...

[Dave5Cs]

@ Dan, could it be desiccant to make sure no corrosion once they sealed it up?

[chessie4905]

the 4104's have desiccant or something like sand in the engine support tube. drill a hole in them and it'll run out. I dismantled a Flxible city bus that had kerosene like liquid inside front axle tube. there was a pretty rusty plug in one end.

[dtcerrato]

It's bone dryness had me thinking desiccant.
Lots of front axles are filled with a thin petroleum liquid for a tell tale to show metal fatigue & fracture.