ION (Battle Born) ?

[benherman1]

Used Telsa battery modules are 1/5th the cost on a KWh basis.

I haven't looked into Tesla cells in a while. The current "best bang for your buck" I've seen is building DIY batteries with cells from Alibaba. If I were to buy my cells today I'd end up with a bit over 15,000 KWh for a bit under 2 grand.

[luvrbus]

A ? what the hell is a limited life time warranty on a battery   

[freds]

Used Telsa battery modules are 1/5th the cost on a KWh basis.

I think if I was to start from scratch today. I might not use Tesla battery modules given the price pressure on Lithium iron phosphate market which seems to be slowly affecting the used Tesla battery market.

Given that I have two modules now, I am thinking of adding a couple more.

However the Tesla modules have a very high energy density, which saves space in the bay and I have already incurred the overhead for a BMS controller that can handle up to 16 modules.

I agree with the 1/5th cost when you compare with BattleBorn batteries.

I do agree with the previously posted sediment that if your needs can be handled with a couple of BattleBorn batteries then go for it.

After that point I would say go with something you can build and repair yourself.

[someguy]

I haven't looked into Tesla cells in a while. The current "best bang for your buck" I've seen is building DIY batteries with cells from Alibaba. If I were to buy my cells today I'd end up with a bit over 15,000 KWh for a bit under 2 grand.

a) Most of the batteries on Alibaba mis rate their capacity.

b) 15,000 KWh for $2,000 ?   Please sign me up for about 10 TWh.   I'll sell them to Elon.

[someguy]

given the price pressure on Lithium iron phosphate market which seems to be slowly affecting the used Tesla battery market.

Where can you get cells that compete with the Tesla modules on price ?

Is there a write up for your system ?  BMS ?  Temp protection ?  Voltage protection ?

[benherman1]

a) Most of the batteries on Alibaba mis rate their capacity.

b) 15,000 KWh for $2,000 ?   Please sign me up for about 10 TWh.   I'll sell them to Elon.

15 KWh lol. I was mixing my units.

[freds]

Where can you get cells that compete with the Tesla modules on price ?

Is there a write up for your system ?  BMS ?  Temp protection ?  Voltage protection ?

I haven't done hard calculations on the numbers, but have been watching the YouTube channels "
DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse " and "DavidPoz" on and off, where they do various battery builds.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoj6RxIAQq8kmJme-5dnN0Q
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXJ7onrDcxo2zy8yAsxqwgg

My Build thread is:

https://www.busconversionmagazine.com/forum/index.php?topic=34318.0

I have info on my battery and solar system on pages 2,3,7,8 and 9

I didn't really go into too much detail on the BMS which is: SimpBMS that communicates directly with the Tesla OEM electronics on each battery module. Most people rip this module off and replace it with something else.

You can find a fair amount of discussion on Will Prowse site with the search term: simpbms where I have also posted under the user id's "freds" and "freds2" which I keep getting locked out of as the verification emails go astray and never arrive if you haven't been on in awhile.

https://diysolarforum.com/search/350641/?q=Simpbms&o=relevance

The "DavidPoz" channel has a recent review of a multifunction inverter/charger/solar charge controller that is only $900.00 that I think is very attractive. It's limitation is that it is 240V AC on input and output.

However you can use a additional transformer to get 240V/120V split phase that we desire in our buses.

I think the advantage of 240V is that you can feed a multi-zone mini-split heat pump which I have seen people add a dedicated inverter for.

[buswarrior]

Be careful with dedicated 240 VAC equipment, that it isn't 50 Hz for Europe...

The devil is in the details...

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

[freds]

Be careful with dedicated 240 VAC equipment, that it isn't 50 Hz for Europe...

The devil is in the details...

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

No it can be set for 60HZ, video shows that. Though these days so many things are make for international use that 50/60 isn't really a big thing...

[luvrbus]

It is a dumb question on my part but will ask anyways do you really think Lithium batteries are here for the long run ?

[Dave5Cs]

At least until they run out of Lithium? which they say will happen.

[Nova Eona]

It is a dumb question on my part but will ask anyways do you really think Lithium batteries are here for the long run ?

Nah, they're a stepping-stone technology.  There are a bunch of promising alternative materials and methods which could be cheaper and safer than lithium without relying on a scarce resource, but for now lithium is just the economic/performance sweet spot with a lot of R&D already under its belt.  Might be years or even decades before that dominance wanes, but it'll happen.

[luvrbus]

At least until they run out of Lithium? which they say will happen.

There is a mine in Nevada looking for investors he is calling it white gold and explained the mining process to me .I can see why the batteries cost so much it takes 500,000 gals of water to mine  a metric ton and a Telsa pack uses 33 lbs that is only 700 batteries,it is to long of a process to go into detail for me to post,but 500,000 gals of water in the Nevada desert doesn't make sense.Green engery is good but we need water in the west.We will be back to square1 depending on China and South America and that would suck     

[richard5933]

There is a mine in Nevada looking for investors he is calling it white gold and explained the mining process to me .I can see why the batteries cost so much it takes 500,000 gals of water to mine  a metric ton and a Telsa pack uses 33 lbs that is only 700 batteries,it is to long of a process to go into detail for me to post,but 500,000 gals of water in the Nevada desert doesn't make sense.Green engery is good but we need water in the west.We will be back to square1 depending on China and South America and that would suck     

My guess is we'll see major wars in the future fought over water, not oil. When a foreign country buys 1000s of acres of farm land in the US, it's not the land they're after, it's the water to grow the crops. They're essentially exporting the water.

Lithium mining is not the only energy industry which requires an enormous amount of water. Fracking uses about 4 million gallons per well. There are others.

When FoxConn decided to locate to Wisconsin recently, it wasn't because it loves cold - it was because making screens requires an enormous amount of water. Their new property here is within the basin that is served by Lake Michigan.

[luvrbus]

My guess is we'll see major wars in the future fought over water, not oil. When a foreign country buys 1000s of acres of farm land in the US, it's not the land they're after, it's the water to grow the crops. They're essentially exporting the water.

Lithium mining is not the only energy industry which requires an enormous amount of water. Fracking uses about 4 million gallons per well. There are others.

When FoxConn decided to locate to Wisconsin recently, it wasn't because it loves cold - it was because making screens requires an enormous amount of water. Their new property here is within the basin that is served by Lake Michigan.

Fracking is a process used in Lithium mining  now what since they want fracking ban