CARB

[luvrbus]

I read it no where does it say RV's are exempt,like BW says it is in the wording   

[richard5933]

I wonder if the general exemptions provided to RVs owned for private use from the Truck and Bus Regulation would carry over to this set of proposed rules?

And if they are not, then here's a piece of the opacity test for older vehicles:

1.Smoke opacity test results must not exceed the applicable opacity limits as specified below.

f. 40% for any heavy-duty vehicle powered by a pre-1991 model-year diesel engine.

40% is a pretty low bar to meet, isn't it?

[Van]

https://www.rvtravel.com/california-mandatory-motorhome-emissions-testing/?fbclid=IwAR1n1YGRReAp5n36a1idgkgz29tgimNkv9_9P5g2LbkLlHfCliBX-WXZCVc

[Iceni John]

This comes as no surprise to me.   Maybe I'll just have to get a non-California domicile address?   Montana, are you listening?   How about having a Historical Vehicle registration?   I know there are mileage limitations etc, but where there's a will there's usually a way.

Let's not lose too much sleep at this point.   We had an old IH truck at work with a T444 engine that visibly smoked, and it still passed its annual opacity tests with flying colors.

John   

[windtrader]

Dang - stop it y'all bunch of Karens.

First, I fully admit that seeing this draft surprises me that it is written as a huge net to include virtually ALL diesel powered vehicles over 14,000 that fall into the following category.

clip from draft regulations

(a) Applicability
(1) This chapter applies to all non-gasoline on-road heavy-duty vehicles
operating in California, including those registered for use in other states
and countries, and the owners and operators of such vehicles. (2) Exemptions – this regulation does not apply to:

   
• (A)  A zero-emission heavy-duty vehicle;
• (B)  Authorized emergency vehicles;
• (C)  A tactical vehicle operated by the military;
• (D)  For four (4) years from the time periodic inspections begin under
  this chapter, when a new vehicle with a heavy-duty engine has been certified to meet the most stringent optional reduced NOx standard as defined in title 13, CCR, section 1956.8, for the specified model years.

ODB is the primary division between how testing and compliance is conducted. For the most part all the older diesels pushing our buses do not have OBD ports. I can't speak to how DDEC technology is technically classified and whether it fall under this category.

For those of us in the non OBD category, as pointed out earlier, the testing and compliance is how much visible smoke is admitted during their testing regime.

I have not idea how to do an initial self-assessment but following is the range of smoke they will be looking for. Given the range is 5% to 40%(on vehicles 1991 and earlier), you figure out where you fall.

I'm not using any sleep over this with respect to passing with flying colors, pun intended. What makes me sigh is CA is just looking to grab more dollars off residents and even y'all out of staters.

If you got a engine that smokes a fair amount, let common sense be your judge, then you should be concerned, irrespective how old. If you have a 1991 and newer, then go deep dive and figure out if DDEC is considered ODB. If not, then do the previous how smoky is my engine test. Otherwise, if DDEC does fall under ODB, then again, common sense, how clean do I think my engine is. If is runs really well, go back to regular scheduled programming, and put some popcorn money aside for the time the CA goons will be banging on your door for testing results and begging for some new fees.

Simple as that folks.


1. Smoke opacity test results must not exceed the applicable opacity limits as specified below.

   
• 5%foranyheavy-dutyvehiclepoweredbya2007or subsequent model-year diesel engine.
• 5%foranyheavy-dutyvehiclerequiredtobe equipped or retrofitted with a Level 3 VDECS, regardless of its diesel engine model-year.
• 20% for any heavy-duty vehicle equipped or retrofitted with a Level 2 VDECS, regardless of its diesel engine model-year.
• 20% for any heavy-duty vehicle powered by a 1997 to 2006 model-year diesel engine.
• 30% for any heavy-duty vehicle powered by a 1991 to 1996 model-year diesel engine
• .40% for any heavy-duty vehicle powered by a pre- 1991 model-year diesel engine.

Definition of ODB



(60) On Board Diagnostics (OBD)" means any system certified to meet the requirements of title 13, CCR, sections 1968.1, 1968.2, 1971.1, or future OBD requirements adopted by the California Air Resources Board.

[Nova Eona]

So long as they don't pull my rig into a giant freezer for a cold start, even my 60+ y/o rig can swing under 40% no problem.  Keep in mind, they may be looking to clean up the roads and harvest some extra tax dollars, but they're not likely to throw away good tourism money by locking the lot of us out wholesale.

[windtrader]

I'd like to agree but this state has no common sense, we are not Texas. Look how brutal the clampdown was on the diesel powered trucks some time ago. They created billions of dollars of expenses when they banned all the older two strokes off the road for any commercial use, then started even more clamping down on the versions of electronic song controls. The state does this because they can get away with it.

[freds]

Since most of our older buses don't have an OBD port, they will be doing a visual opacity test. "What if your motorhome doesn't have an OBD port that the test gear can hook up to? Then your rig is subject to an opacity test and a "visual inspection." The opacity test means your tailpipe emissions are analyzed. Essentially, how smoky is the stuff coming out of your tail pipe? If it's too smoky, you lose. Time for a repair."

I wonder if you added propane injection and enabled it during the test if you could automatically pass the visual opacity test?

[chessie4905]

Add throttle delay.

[luvrbus]

Makes no difference every diesel powered vehicle in CA prior to 2010 leaves the state or has to be upgraded to 2010 emissions standards when it reaches the miles CARB has set i document says 200,000 another says 300,000 miles they are going to get you 1 way or the other in time.We here in AZ are flooded with CA trucks and buses for sale just today I was offered a 2006 truck with a 3176  Cat engine and a Allison for 2 g's lol the tires are worth the 2 grand   

[Knuckles]

Try one of these maybe someone will have a sense of humour and let you go if not there are other places to spend your money

[usbusin]

The following is a letter that a member of another board (Escapees) received from the RVIA newsletter.

"By: RV Industry Association Staff

The California Air Resources Board (CARB) is developing a Heavy-Duty Inspection/Maintenance regulatory concept to make sure that non-gasoline powered vehicles greater than 14,000 lbs. operating in California (including vehicles registered out of state) have properly functioning emissions control systems. While this is only a regulatory concept right now, the intention is for this to eventually become a regulation that would essentially establish a smog check program for heavy-duty diesels. The new requirements being considered by CARB could have huge implications for diesel motorhome owners.

The rulemaking under development, which is mandated by Senate Bill 210 (signed into law in September 2019), will require owners of diesel motorhomes nationwide to obtain an annual certificate of conformity from CARB in order to operate their vehicles on California roads. The rule would apply to all motorhomes operated in California even, for example, motorhomes registered in Virginia or Vermont which travel into California on vacation. This is despite the fact that the legislative history of the new law is clear that motorhomes are not the intended subject to be regulated.

Along with the National Association of RV Parks and Campgrounds (ARVC) and the CampCalNOW RV Park and Campground Alliance, the RV Industry Association has sent comments to CARB on the potentially negative impact this proposal could have on RV owners and RV parks and campgrounds.

Many out-of-state owners would opt to vacation in other states if this draconian regulation were in place against all diesel motorhomes. The portion of the proposal which would allow a 3-day exemption from the regulation is also unworkable for the overwhelming majority of motorhome owners who would be considering California vacations, since very few motorhome trips into California are for three days or fewer.

Next up for the proposed rule is a workshop that will occur in late March. A full regulatory proposal is not likely to be sent to the full Board until near the end of this year, with an anticipated effective date in 2023. The RV Industry Association and our coalition partners will continue to work with CARB staff to develop appropriate provisions that will protect the public without being overly burdensome on motorhomes.

For questions, contact Mike Ochs, Director of Government Affairs, at mochs@rvia.org."

[harpold700 3]

California?  Their madness reaches far, Eh?

[richard5933]

As the statement from RVIA says, this one might come back to bite them in the rear a little bit. Not sure they're going to do much other than aggravate the 1000s of RV owners that would normally venture into/through California over a year's time when they are met at the border with this news and expense. Hopefully their own tourist board will get on the sanity bandwagon.

[windtrader]

Here's the direct link.
https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/default/files/classic//msprog/hdim/meetings/20201217_draft_hdim_reg_concepts.pdf

and the devil's den

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/heavy-duty-inspection-and-maintenance-program

and the full text

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201920200SB210


Govt Anaylsis
09/12/19- Senate Floor Analyses
09/06/19- Assembly Floor Analysis