Need advice on my bus search

Robert D · November 04, 2020, 06:32:50 AM

I need help from the experts deciding which bus will fit my needs. I have been researching over the past six month and have realized that my options may be limited.

I would like to stay at 35' if possible due to parking space at my house and maneuverability. Here is the determining factor, I need to pull a 24' enclosed car trailer that weighs between 6,500 and 7,500lbs. I don't want to tow the car on an open trailer to reduce weight and wind load because it is a car that I would prefer to keep out of the elements that will be going to road courses for races/track days. I will be traveling from south Florida to the South Eastern states 8 to 10 a year, mostly in flat land Florida during the summer heat though. Other trips will be for running marathons where we will have to be driving and parking in cities where the shorter length will advantageous. Our trips would last between 4 days and two weeks. Most if not all of the trips will be just my wife and I. We are looking to buy something between now and next spring if I can find the right one.

Also, I am aware of the tongue weight issues and would load the trailer to minimize it using a spread axle trailer.

I am not ruling out any manufacturer, slides or not nor conversion company. I do not mind 96" or 102".

I have been looking at a few models including the MCI MC-5, but I do not know what they can pull. I have read suggested weights on various sites, but the figures I have read vary widely.

Prevost Champion/Le Mirage – I cannot find any info about towing capacities.

Prevost Le Mirage XL - I like the idea of the XL due to it being a 35' single axle and 102" wide with a HT740 but these have proven to be nearly impossible to find and I am not sure if they are capable of towing the weight. I have never saw one in person, has anyone else?

Are there any other models out there that I have missed?

I would like to find a finished bus rather than convert one myself. I was a mechanic in a previous career. So while I am capable, I do not want to spend the time required on the build. I don't mind repairs and upgrades where necessary such as welding reinforcements to the engine cradle to support the trailer load.

Also, will there be issues with GCWR rating of any of these busses?

My budget is $65,000 max but I would prefer staying under $35,000.

Thank you in advance,
Robert

luvrbus · November 04, 2020, 06:41:33 AM

Buy the most modern power train with a resale value if possible and remember a bus is not a good investment you spend 40k on one and 2 years down the road if you need to sell you will be lucky to get 20k

Robert D · November 04, 2020, 06:54:05 AM

I have come to realize that there will be a significant resale loss which I am prepared for. That is part of the reason I'm looking for a completed bus rather that the added expense of building one. Also, fingers crossed, I plan on keeping it for the foreseeable future.

Thanks
Robert

lvmci · November 04, 2020, 08:25:27 AM

Hi Robert, there are a few modern 102" wide 35' long buses, with 4 stroke engines, finding them converted is another story. MCI and Temsa come to mind. The older MCI, GM and Prevost 35' buses will have 2 strokes, some have been modified with 6V92, 2 strokes, that may be enough power, but that much weight will cause heat issues, extra cooling may be needed. And the tow hitch will need to be mounted differently to accommodate the actions that much weight off the engine cradle rails, to keep from developing stress cracks. Do a lot of research and get a consensus from the gurus, here on the boards. lvmci...

Jim Blackwood · November 04, 2020, 08:48:58 AM

I originally wanted a 35' bus, but when I started looking I found the DL had as tight of a turning radius as a 35. Now clearly that isn't the full story but it kinda minimized that particular objection. and then the advantages of a 45 began to take over and in the end I bought a DL. But, as you are looking for a converted bus I'd estimate your chances as being much better since a higher percentage of converted buses are going to be 35's.

MCI seems to be kind of the workhorse in terms of modern buses, GM very much a vintage favorite, and Prevost more of a rich man's toy. At least that's the impression I get. I'm sure I'll be corrected about that but you have to start somewhere, right?

Jim

Robert D · November 04, 2020, 09:21:48 AM

lvmci, I have considered the heat issues using it in the Florida summer. I was hoping someone would address it. Do you know if the 8V92 radiators will fit the MC5?

I am ok with a two stroke. I have been looking for one with a 6V92 conversion. That is what attracted me to the Le Mirage XL, from what I have read it came with a 6V92TA. If I find one with a two stroke Detroit that is tired I can inframe it myself.

I'll start looking at the newer MCIs and I don't know anything about Temsas, but I'll check them out. Thanks for letting me know about them.

Jim, I would love to have a PD4106, probably my favorite looking bus, but needing to tow kind of eliminates them for me. That's why I have been concentrating on MCIs and the less expensive Prevost models.

I will check out the DL. I haven't looked at them yet. Thanks for the info.

windtrader · November 04, 2020, 09:24:57 AM

Quote from: Jim Blackwood on November 04, 2020, 08:48:58 AM
I originally wanted a 35' bus, but when I started looking I found the DL had as tight of a turning radius as a 35. Now clearly that isn't the full story but it kinda minimized that particular objection. and then the advantages of a 45 began to take over and in the end I bought a DL. But, as you are looking for a converted bus I'd estimate your chances as being much better since a higher percentage of converted buses are going to be 35's.

MCI seems to be kind of the workhorse in terms of modern buses, GM very much a vintage favorite, and Prevost more of a rich man's toy. At least that's the impression I get. I'm sure I'll be corrected about that but you have to start somewhere, right?

Jim

Jim,That's a pretty nice and tidy way to sum up the bulk of buses used in conversions. I'd add that Prevost is more spendy is there are far fewer DIY conversions and were used by professional conversion companies. More MCI conversions done DIY so a lot more variety from a stripped bus to full conversion. Some number of MCI were professionally converted. GM is for the vintage crowd more than those wanting more space and power and most conversions are DIY. Probably the fewest professional conversions done on this platform.
When I started researching and MCI vs GM was a big topic. At the time a few years ago, it was like GM vs MCI was like Ford vs Chevy but that is not how I view it today. There are fans of both but very different options once you dig in. For example, more engine swaps and upgrades can be done on MCI. GM has the transverse configuration and that limits options.
And, of course, there is nothing more awesome than the lines and styling of the old GM coaches.

Jim Blackwood · November 04, 2020, 11:09:56 AM

I like the '95 or so 102DL3 and that's what I bought. Should be a pretty fair number of conversions already done I would think, as the bus was so numerous, but it's a fairly recent conversion also which would decrease the numbers. Once you start digging it has a lot going for it just in the basic bus. Then of course it depends on the quality of the conversion. But I would think you could find something towards the bottom end of your range.

Jim

6805eagleguy · November 04, 2020, 11:44:38 AM

And don't forget an Eagle. There are some 35' factory model 15s around....

Robert D · November 04, 2020, 12:15:41 PM

Jim, Only having time for a five minute search at the moment, the 102D3 is in the possibility column now. The Series 60 is a definite plus and I didn't realize that the stainless steel lower body was an option on those. Is the 102's engine cradle able to accept the load better that the older busses?

6805eagleguy, I haven't looked at Eagles only because I haven't been around any. Do you know if the model 15 is capable of towing that much weight?

Thanks guys. It looks like I have some reading to do tonight.

Lin · November 04, 2020, 12:26:20 PM

I would think that with towing good weight in mind you might want to go with a bus that has a frame unlike GM and MCI. One option to look at might be something like a Bluebird.

Low Class · November 04, 2020, 12:36:43 PM

Check out PT36 Wanderlodge. Have factory 10000 pound hitch. Will do what you want on level ground. Under powered in hill country. I tow 5500 . 32 mph on 6%. Greater than 6 % 16 mph. And 68 mph flat land.

Fred Mc · November 04, 2020, 02:03:52 PM

Automated Safety Hitch.
There is another consideration for towing where the engine cradle(i.e.4106) won't support the weight of a big trailer and that is the Automated Safety hitch. https://mrtrailer.com/safetyhitch.htmThis one is a 5th wheel setup but there are some out there for bumper pulls as well.

richard5933 · November 04, 2020, 02:59:16 PM

I'd add a vote for something like a Bluebird Wanderlodge. They can be found with more power than a GM vintage bus, and they are typically good for towing.

Jim Blackwood · November 04, 2020, 04:29:39 PM

I like the B500/series 60 DDEC 4 in those buses, along with the r134 refrigerant and aux heater (Webasto or Eiberspacher) as well as stainless bulkheads and stringers in the bays. (The floors are aluminum.) Layout seems generally pretty sensible, and they are reportedly easy to drive. I haven't had mine out on the road yet. Parts seem reasonable and easy to find. Judging by what I've seen so far they seem to be fairly well insulated. I think it makes a good choice but whether it's best for you is something you have to decide.

Jim