Alternative to solar cells

richard5933 · October 10, 2020, 04:35:21 PM

Quote from: freds on October 10, 2020, 04:01:40 PM
...I don't understand how other manufactures are going to solve long distant travel for electric cars; as there is a hodgepodge of charging stations from multiple vendors...

People need to take a breath and relax. We're still in the infancy stage of EVs right now, no different than when gasoline cars first came on the scene. Imagine what it was like to try and go cross country in an automobile back in 1900 - gasoline was still a rare commodity, being sold in places like pharmacies.

One day places like this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/09/27/dc-area-service-station-just-became-nations-first-ditch-gasoline-electric-energy-what-happens-next-is-anyones-guess/

will be as common as the local gas station. Give it time.

freds · October 10, 2020, 06:35:33 PM

Quote from: richard5933 on October 10, 2020, 04:35:21 PM
People need to take a breath and relax. We're still in the infancy stage of EVs right now, no different than when gasoline cars first came on the scene. Imagine what it was like to try and go cross country in an automobile back in 1900 - gasoline was still a rare commodity, being sold in places like pharmacies.

One day places like this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/09/27/dc-area-service-station-just-became-nations-first-ditch-gasoline-electric-energy-what-happens-next-is-anyones-guess/

will be as common as the local gas station. Give it time.

Hey Richard, I agree that people need to relax on electrical vehicles. However as great as they are, they are a long way from a five-ten minute fill up that you can do with petro vehicles.

You basically have to be home owner and be able to dispense the power (ok trickle charge) while sleeping or have a super charger nearby or somewhere in your daily commute.

There are four basic charging levels:

1. 120 volt outlet, refill rate 4 MPH. 1.8Kw (Called level one)
2. 220 volt outlet, refill rate up to 24 MPH 10Kw (called level two), note charging you see at grocery stores is generally 7KW or less.
3. 220 volt outlet greater than 40 AMP's (depends on car equipment) 36 to 48 MPH. 20KW
4. DC to DC fast charging (highly variable) can start at 300 MPH++, slows down as charge level ramps up. Fastest rate of charge is when battery is totally empty.

For DC to DC chargers Tesla has chargers that have the following charge rates 50KW (some shopping malls, haven't seen many of these units), 80KW (initial super charger), 120KW (most widely deployed) and 250KW (latest standard).

Even given the faster rates with super chargers; Tesla tends to locate their chargers with places that you can go have a bite to eat. So every 2 1/2 hours you take a 20 minute or longer break depending on the terrain ahead.

As a side note I have had my car over six years and it's only been in for something that needed fixed twice and once was for recalled air bags. A lot of electric cars are like this and that's why dealers don't want to sell them.

richard5933 · October 10, 2020, 06:39:40 PM

You're talking about what's available now, today.

Wait until tomorrow and the day after that. These things are changing so quickly that we can't even imagine how they'll be in a couple of years.

Just like the first drivers had to find a pharmacy to buy gasoline by the can, we're at that awkward phase now where the infrastructure is not built out. They haven't even decided yet what they're going to build.

Any talk about the current charging methods as definitive is moot. That will all change in a short time. If you're not ready to be a beta tester then sit back and enjoy the show. By the time you get ready they'll be two or three (or more) iterations beyond.

Iceni John · October 10, 2020, 07:18:50 PM

Quote from: Jim Blackwood on October 09, 2020, 08:38:35 PM
It seems that these days the hottest new technology for medium and heavy vehicles is fuel cells. Reportedly GM and others are heavily invested in making it work. The upsurge in battery powered EVs has brought in development of motors and controls systems, reducing the development costs for fuel cells, leaving primarily the cells themselves and the high pressure tanks for storing hydrogen gas. The chief development in fuel cell technology has been the recognition that a great deal of air must be forced through and the development of means for doing that. Presently it looks like a very high speed electrically driven turbine is the most efficient. Think turbo without the exhaust scroll.

I had always hoped they could find a way to use more base fuel gasses such as hydrocarbons rather than pure hydrogen but haven't heard of much progress on that front.

Jim

Every time I go to my bus that's stored in an RV yard behind the local Home Depot here, I pass an impressive array of Bloom Energy fuel cells that Home Depot uses as a backup to mains power. Bloom's website states that their fuel cells run off natural gas which is a hydrocarbon. I wonder if they break down the methane to its constituent parts, or just use it as-is instead of pure hydrogen?

John

CrabbyMilton · October 11, 2020, 06:02:44 AM

I see TESLA's all over the place so they must be doing something right. All of the school bus builders now offer an EV model. They may be fine for around town but not for a longer field trips to a farm. I can see it. Ok kids farmer Smith is kind enough to tow us to the nearest town at 10mph. Your parents will have been called. As for over the road buses, a small diesel generator would be great to supplement the high demand for HVAC.

sledhead · October 11, 2020, 01:16:12 PM

what I would like to see is a primary electric with a small purpose built gas or diesel generator built in to charge the battery if you are on a long trip or not near a electric charging station . kinda like the bmw i3 with the range extender but a way better generator

cuz I live in the boonies

dave

buswarrior · October 11, 2020, 02:37:07 PM

Same as our "traditional" autos...

Nobody can accurately measure the co$t$ of the fuel, per unit of travel, or unit of ownership.

A real opportunity to game the foolish population, since everyone wants to brag about everything except how much they really pay for "fuel" ...

Remembering to go back outside to plug in the car once the hydro drops to the lower charging rate...

Yeah, the average undisciplined North American is going to put up with that...

Remove the various, and extensive government interferences... er... subsidies... er ... encouragements...

This stuff costs money, and nobody is sure what the REAL CO$T$ are...

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

freds · October 12, 2020, 09:05:21 AM

Quote from: buswarrior on October 11, 2020, 02:37:07 PM
Same as our "traditional" autos...

Nobody can accurately measure the co$t$ of the fuel, per unit of travel, or unit of ownership.

A real opportunity to game the foolish population, since everyone wants to brag about everything except how much they really pay for "fuel" ...

Remembering to go back outside to plug in the car once the hydro drops to the lower charging rate...

Yeah, the average undisciplined North American is going to put up with that...

Remove the various, and extensive government interferences... er... subsidies... er ... encouragements...

This stuff costs money, and nobody is sure what the REAL CO$T$ are...

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

All of the government subsidies have expired for Tesla and they are still doing gang buster sales. They did receive a government loan; but they paid it back a decade early.

Not a Tesla fan boy, but a business fan boy... Heck they will have two more massive manufacturing plants coming online next year.

Lee Bradley · October 12, 2020, 04:49:24 PM

Allis Chalmers built a fuel cell powered tractor in 1959.
Most of the NASA spacecraft used fuel cells.

https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_687671

Brassman · October 14, 2020, 05:53:12 PM

Oh, that Allis-Chalmers tractor would be quite the nightmare to work, with those 1008 fuel cells wired together in 9 banks of 112 cells each. Remarkable project back in 1959 though.