OTR heat if you remove the bus system ?

[someguy]

I looked at doing this but you would need a good size propane tank

" Rinnai 75K BTU Boiler/Tankless water heater, propane.  $2154.  95.5% efficient.  Weighs 91 pounds.  Has a recirculation pump built in.   All one would need are some zone valves.  "

Because 75K BTU is a pretty good draw on a propane system, especially if the tank is a bit cold or because the coach is going to use a lot of propane ?  Or both ?

the diesel boilers are crap when it comes to efficiency maybe 55-60 % and never touch the exhaust pipe as it will burn the skin off you   but I have a 190 gal. diesel tank and when on the road it is real easy to fill up the tank unlike trying to find a propane station that you can get into

I agree on all counts.   But the coach could be equipped with 30 pound propane tanks which could be filled without moving it.  That is how RVs handle propane. 

I had a in floor hydronic heat system on the M C I that worked great when driving

Please tell me more about this. 

BTW, do you winter camp in your rig while snowmobiling ?   Do you drive your rig in winter ?  Does it stay warm ?

but when camped it took to long for the heat to get through the floor even with the metal heat plates under the 1/2 " pex pipe in the floor .

Why was it different when camped versus when driving ?   Was it using the same circulation pump ?

[someguy]

the cozy heaters are almost instant heat when you want it but yes there is the noise of the muffin fans

https://www.parts.rvhydronicheaterrepair.com/Heat-Exchanger-Cozy-III-EXE-103-0EX-Non-Stock-Item-EXE-103-0EX.htm

diesel boiler to heat coolant to cozy fan heater = warmmmmm

https://www.busesandmore.com/inventory/new-proheat-x45-24-volt-coolant-heaters/

https://photos.app.goo.gl/4uJ4ybsbVNpTUydT9

https://photos.app.goo.gl/CuTKNjr4XfQrFEaF9

to kick space cozy heaters under kitchen cabinets and in many other areas through out the coach

https://photos.app.goo.gl/dJb1mgHng9ngVByp9

dave

Thanks for these.   Those toe kick heaters look perfect.

The Proheat X45 is 45K BTU and uses 1.2L/hr or 0.32 gallons per hour.  Diesel fuel is 139,000 BTU/gallon.   0.32 gallons/hour x 139,000 = 44,480 BTU input.   Apparently this device is 100% efficient !

I'd really like to use a diesel fired heater if I can and avoid the hassle of having propane tanks and finding propane.

[windtrader]

I'd really like to use a diesel fired heater if I can and avoid the hassle of having propane tanks and finding propane.

It takes real effort to eliminate propane. If you are boondocking you need a lot of power to even run an efficient residential refrigerator, at least 1kW storage. You need propane for cooktop and oven unless going electric, again more energy needed. Some use propane for hot water too. lots to think about before zero propane, almost same as zero generator.

[sledhead]

Because 75K BTU is a pretty good draw on a propane system, especially if the tank is a bit cold or because the coach is going to use a lot of propane ?  Or both ?
 
I agree on all counts.   But the coach could be equipped with 30 pound propane tanks which could be filled without moving it.  That is how RVs handle propane. 

Please tell me more about this. 

BTW, do you winter camp in your rig while snowmobiling ?   Do you drive your rig in winter ?  Does it stay warm ?

Why was it different when camped versus when driving ?   Was it using the same circulation pump ?

I drive to Florida each year after Christmas and some years it is really cold - 30 and both coach's have been awesome in the cold

when driving the heat was free from the 6v92ta through a large heat exchanger then to a circ pump that ran through 3 zones in the coach floor front to back . the problem when camping was it took to long to heat up the floor with the diesel boiler or a 1500 watt electric water heater as said above sometimes you need the heat right now . 


30 lb propane tanks would work 
my coach I have now was a all elect coach when I got it and I removed the 2 burner cook top and replaced it with a propane 2 burner cook top as well as a quick release propane bbq and installed 2  x 20 lb tanks on a slide . I use about 1 tank a year and we use the coach a lot . sometimes for months at a time

dave

[Fred Mc]

"Are people aware of the affordable Chinese 2 and 5 KW diesel fired air heaters ?  Van people love them.   There are also Chinese clone 5 KW diesel fired water heaters."

Are they also aware of "where" the corona virus came from??

[lostagain]

The problem with propane is that it can be a real hassle to find when away from home. On the interstate highways, every Flying J has it, great. But in the country side in the small towns, you look up a propane place, get there and you find closed, or you have to unhook the toad to get to the back of the lot. Mexico is worst because what they call propane is actually butane. That is fine in hot weather, but not back up North where it freezes. Diesel is way easier to get, like at every street corner almost. I would go all diesel if I built a bus. With solar panels which are great when the sun shines. And you still need a good generator because the ski hills with lots of snow don't get a lot of sunshine...

[someguy]

It takes real effort to eliminate propane. If you are boondocking you need a lot of power to even run an efficient residential refrigerator, at least 1kW storage. You need propane for cooktop and oven unless going electric, again more energy needed. Some use propane for hot water too. lots to think about before zero propane, almost same as zero generator.

I know !
I've been looking at cooking and refrigeration too, just not discussing it on the forums.

You are right... the most efficient residential fridges use about 1KWHr of energy per day.  Probably need a 1KW solar system to support a fridge like that.  Yet many of the larger 5ers and Class As now come with a residential fridge.   Propane fridges also need a hole in the side of the bus, as well as a roof vent.

Ditto for induction cook tops.  Many 5ers and Class As are now using induction cook tops instead of propane.

Not sure what to do about things.

[richard5933]

For refrigerators there are also 12vdc compressor units. None of the propane hassle or danger, and far less energy hungry than residential.

[windtrader]

Not sure what to do about things

Hey Someguy. You have earned the first merit badge of the Order of the Busnut! You now are humbled that the more you know the less you know. As you continue to learn about all this, the next badge is making sense of the most common options busnuts have adopted.


This is why I asked the question earlier about your unique situation: time, budget, planned use, etc. What works best for you depends on these factors. If you struggle to clearly answer those questions, you need to stop researching and be able to answer those questions. At that point, navigating through the forest without banging and into and tripping over trees as the path forward becomes clearer.


For example, in this discussion about onboard energy sources, whether it be propane, house batteries, diesel, etc., if your layovers are always sites with a 50amp 220vac, then nearly this entire topic becomes a waste of time as you can just wire up everything to run off AC. And there are some here who do just that. At the other bookend is 100% off grid and zero dependence on power off the pole. As you see, what you spec in your build depends all on how you plan to use the bus. My advice - put the catalog down and do that homework first. It'll be better for you and us here.

[someguy]

For refrigerators there are also 12vdc compressor units. None of the propane hassle or danger, and far less energy hungry than residential.

The amount of work done by the fridge compressor to keep food cold is the same whether the compressor is driven by an AC motor or a DC motor.  I see little gain by switching to a DC compressor given the same fridge size with the same insulation.

[someguy]

you need to stop researching and be able to answer those questions.

No I don't.

[Jim Blackwood]

You'll get there, no need to be in a great hurry. Being in a rush always costs you, time, money, or both.

Now about those refrigerators. Residential fridges are nice, no getting around that, and the newer ones are pretty efficient too. Efficient enough that you can run them on batteries... for awhile. How long a while? Hard to say but for sure you'll need a way to top off the batteries. Solar is expensive and a bit awkward, generators make noise. But the old school solution is still a very viable one. RV fridges run on the ammonia cycle and use heat to make cold. Sounds kinda counterintuitive and is a crazy mixup of chemistry and convection but it works and an RV fridge can run on a bottle of propane for a LONG time. They also run on AC. A few run on DC as well but unless you spend a lot of time driving that's just an unnecessary expense. The new ones are very nice too. Be prepared to spend a little money, but in my mind the convenience is worth it.

I don't think you should try to get by without propane. Put a large enough tank in the bay to satisfy your needs but plan on other energy sources for the heavy lifting. For instance, cooking over gas is so much more satisfying than with electric. Gas water heaters give out that warm roar that tells you when the water is hot by going silent. (adding electric here makes them heat twice as fast too) A gas furnace can take the chill off quickly.

Otoh, an electric oven is way better than a gas one usually. If your bus has the 80 or 90K aux heater why not use it? You'll be refilling the tank soon anyway. And a shore line is always your friend. Then there is the genny. Of course it should be diesel, or in my case propane because I got a killer deal on a gas fired residential aux power unit. (so I will have a larger propane tank because of it) Solar is wonderful but has limitations that can remove it from your plans. We have some good threads on it here, maybe you will like it.

It's all compromise though. There is no right and not all that many wrongs. It's just the balance that you find most satisfying.

Jim

[dtcerrato]

Our LP RV fridge seems to run forever on a tank of LP. When there is 110 present it's on that. It's the only way we've ever known and love it - it works for us. Then there's the 12 volt 110 volt chest fridge freezer in the bottom compartment next to the tool room. That's a story for a different day...
Call it redundancy. 

[windtrader]

No I don't.

Boy, you are some guy. Sounds like you got it all sorted out so I'm out. Good luck some guy. bye

[someguy]

For the price of a larger RV (propane) fridge you can buy a residential fridge and a bunch of solar panels.  I'm hoping to use 2 Tesla model S batteries in my conversion, for > 10 KWHrs of energy storage.  A high efficiency residential fridge will use about 1 KWHr a day. 

Solar isn't going to help in the dead of winter, of course.  But I don't expect to be boondocking for long periods of time in the dead of winter.

Ice makers take a lot of energy !  Either the fridge I buy can't have an ice maker or I need to be able to turn the ice maker off entirely when operating from battery.

These people replaced the RV fridge with a residential fridge in their 2000 Country Coach.  They also redid the entire interior.  Just like renovating a residence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeYbC_mRaVg&list=PLH9qlI-gPYX7VLH2j8-8gwwIlCOvhTeyY&index=3

At times their coach interior looks like a bus conversion.

It turns out pretty nice.