Webasto question

[Jim Blackwood]

Started the bus today for the 2nd time since it's been here and moved it because Chris was coming to get the seats so I ran it for about 1/2hr and the exhaust from the Webasto never got warm. In the manual it says it is supposed to turn on when the engine starts, apparently it isn't doing that, so before I start taking things apart I thought I'd check and see if there's something I'm missing.

The controls are in a pod by the driver's left leg. There's a square faced indicator with a knob (turned all the way up) and a round faced indicator with two small buttons. When one is pressed it shows O.U., the other doesn't seem to do anything. There is a red indicator light that is on, I think maybe that was on the square faced indicator but am not sure without looking again.

I'm not sure the directions in the owner's manual match that well with the equipment I have but I'm headed back out to look at it again. If anyone wants to comment on this I'd be grateful for the guidance. Chris said he had a brand new head for it if I need it. Didn't say how much. I neglected to ask him to look at the controls.
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And if anyone wants to know, (skip this section if not) Chris looked at the air bags and said it had been plated and looked like it was done before it needed it. He also said the engine was bone dry which was a good sign, and he said I have the B500 transmission (called it the big one). Also wanted any of the overhead bins that I remove. He gave me a switch I should be able to use for my mirror heat. Chris lives in Huntingburg, IN, and has a bus repair service, some of you may know him. (vintagecoachpart0 on ebay)

While I had it running I switched on the A/C to see if any freon would come up in the lower sight window on the receiver. It didn't. So probably it is at least low on freon. The oil in the compressor was a little low too, halfway up the lower sight glass. Probably just means there will be less freon to be pumped out when the time comes to work on it. I'll get out my black light flashlight to see if there is any dye in the system.

I moved it around to the end of my shop where I can get at the side bays with my forklift and slide in the genset and the water tank once I've had the chance to cut it down and install baffles and fittings. I've taped out the rough inside layout, which favors the bedroom, bath and office at the expense of the living area but still leaves room for a couch or futon that is long enough to sleep on. Economical and functional, that's the game plan.

Jim

[lostagain]

You need a manual for the Webasto. I got mine from a refrigeration shop that is a dealer. The problem could be the ignitor, or the burner orifice, or the flame sensor, or any of the other sensors and other controls. You will also need a diagnostic module that helps a lot. Once it is fixed, all it needs is an annual preventive maintenance. That S60 will run cold and like crap without a properly working Webasto. Good luck.

JC

[richard5933]

Here is a great resource for all things Webasto:

http://lloyddegerald.com/

When we got our 4106, I sent the control module and the main burner unit to Lloyd - he did a thorough cleaning and got things functioning, and then it was just maintenance as required.

He is also helpful talking you through some troubleshooting.

[buswarrior]

Webasto has all the tech manuals available online.

Just keep looking, every language is in there...

https://dealers.webasto.com/Sections/Public/Documents.aspx?SectionId=6&CategoryId=9

There are no mysteries, clean the flame sensor, ensure continuity thru the overheat fuse, fresh nozzle, adjust sparkers, check the wires to sparkers like they are spark plug wires... and use the vacuum cleaner on the burner cavity, get all that crap out of there...

The wires attached externally to the unit live a horrible life, check they are intact.

Steady light on, on all the versions of control I have seen, indicate the unit is being told to burn.

There are a number of different controls available at the driver's position.

The round one, the dial handle in the centre pulls out/pushes in, to accomplish something, often missed by those unfamiliar... line the timer up with the indicator, or it won't burn...

Previous owners can't be trusted to have bypassed the running of the unit, automatically, with engine running...

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

[Jim Blackwood]

OK that... was interesting. Can't say I've ever been so underwhelmed by documentation before, but hey, secrets must be protected I suppose. Here are a couple photos of the controller. One with the "set" button being pressed and one with the "Man" button pressed. No point in including one with neither button pressed, that looks just like it does when you press the "Man" button. The bezel didn't feel like it would turn either. I didn't try any combination of pressing both buttons, guess that's next. If there's a secret combination, please give it up guys. (probably not)

Andy says there's a $100 spark plug that gets replaced every time it's serviced. True? Not true?

So... pull the head I guess. Do cleanup. See what happens. Try not to blow anything up. (this time)

Jim

[richard5933]

There are lots of manuals for these online, and before you tear into it you should probably find one. They are pretty complete manuals, so if you're underwhelmed by what you found maybe you didn't find the complete manual for your unit.

[buswarrior]

Well, there's problem number one...

That's an Espar control, not a Webasto control.

https://www.eberspaecher-na.com/download-center/technical-manuals.html

These are worthy competitors, Webasto and Eberspaecher.

Go into the engine room and find the ID plate for the model, you'll need it for finding the correct manuals

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[buswarrior]

That other control, with the MCI logo, is the coach HVAC temp control, located in a strange place...

Usually in the instrument panel, in one of the holes to the right of the steering wheel...

I was expecting a square Webasto control to be where this MCI temp control has been fitted...

Repeat after me: Beware the previous owner, damn the previous owner, beware the previous owner...

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[Geoff]

There is no way a Webasto would run for  30 minutes and not be hot.  If so, it would only be blowing out white unburned diesel if it was cold.

AND, there is an automatic shut down if it doesn't start within a couple of minutes.

[Jim Blackwood]

Ah yes, I came to the same conclusion though I'd never heard of Espar. Plain as day in the photo though, ain't it? Has the look of a model 24/30/35 from their website. Even has that sideways "W" on the end. Well, I didn't know the difference but it didn't look like any of the Webasto photos I looked at. Must have been a substitution at MCI, there was some mention of MCI on their website. I'm still sorting it out and I've seen a sketch of their controller also. I know about where to look for the model tag so that helps. I have the unit partially disassembled but the tech materials are taking some digging. Should make some progress on it tomorrow.

Jim

[Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM]

As Richard noted above.  Call Lloyd DeGerald and he can diagnose many things over the phone related to Webasto, Aqua-Hot and Hydro-Hot systems.  All he does is to tour the country attending RV rallies and services these units. He recommends yearly maintenance on these systems and recommends you cycle them at least monthly even in the summer.

He services my unit every January in Quartzsite to keep mine in top running condition. He carries all parts needed with him but if he needs something unusual he can usually get them shipped in overnight.  For anyone with one of these units and is planning on coming to Quartzsite in January, call him now to get on his list as he stays very busy while the RV show is going on.

If you are not going to Quartzsite, check his schedule and maybe you can catch him at or near an event near you.

Choose his "Blog" to see his event calendar.   http://lloyddegerald.com/

Gary

[richard5933]

Don't overlook the possibility either that the previous owners played mix and match with your system, using parts from various manufacturers to get things working. We had an Espar thermostat mounted to the wall, but our boiler system was Webasto.

[luvrbus]

There is floor hatch to gain access to the unit regardless if it is a Espar,Pro/Heat or Webasto.Mine is a Webasto it wasn't programed to start with the series 60 but to preheat and keep the engine operating temp up if needed   

[buswarrior]

And by "keep the temp up" that means somewhere 160 degrees, inside the pipes at the right place, not necessarily what the dash gauge reads.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

[Jim Blackwood]

That all sounds helpful. It's an Eberspaecher unit alright, Espar controller. A 24 I think, supposed to be 82K btu I think. I used my phone to take a photo of the tag but I'm away for the weekend and I'm lousy at phone pictures and have lost the photos. The service manual seems to be less a manual for service than an advertisement for factory servicing, at least the one I looked at. I haven't been able to find anything on removing the two wires that go to the burn chamber and it's tough to get the head into a good position to clean it without doing that. I'm guessing they are sensors. I'll have to keep looking. Illustrated parts breakdown might be as helpful as anything, but a spec for spark gap distance would be beneficial. Seems like a simple system with an overly complicated wiring diagram but that's just a first impression and how complex can it be with a 3 wire controller?

One thing I noticed about the coolant loop is that it draws water from the engine, heats it, sends it through the coach heater cores, then exhausts it back to the engine if I followed it correctly. So the heat goes to the coach  and any surplus goes to the engine, unless you shut off heat to the coach. May not be the most efficient but as long as it works I'll not make any changes right away.

I guess it needs fuel, air, and power so I'll approach it that way to start with. Get those squared away and then look at the controls and the spark. I'm fairly familiar with burners and have made some of my own including oil fired.

My best guess is something in particular has caused it to stop working. Clogged nozzle, failure of fuel supply, failure of spark, or failure of signal to turn on. So it seems the problem should be found in one of those places.

Jim