OT: Wanna buy a campground?

[gr8njt]

You can also go directly to www.maps.google.com and just type 29161 on the search box.
No program to download. You will initially get a regular map of Zip code 29161, you can zoom in closer to Highway 403 off I-95 then click on the "Satellite" button on the upper right hand corner of the map or use the "hybrid" view.
Like Jax_n said, looks like a nice campground from the sky.

[Nick Badame Refrig/ACC]

I couldn't resist posting the sat pic of the campground.....

Dallas, There's your Bus on the left.....

Nick-

[Chaz]

COOL PIC!!!!!  Nice roof Dallas!   

  I have been following this thread and I hope something comes of it. All the "wet blankets" are actually very comforting!! Some of you folks really have some greaat knowledge and insight on such stuff, and it's VERY advantageous!!! I'm a little more starry eyed about such cool ideas, but always try to look up people to bring me down to earth- and know what they are talking about. Sounds like we have a healthy dose of both here.

  If it should happen to come to pass that it's a good risk, I would also be interested. It just sounds so cool.

  Anyway, I'll be watching to see!!
       Chaz

[Dallas]

Yeah, in that picture I had just Koolsealed the roof!
Noiw the Koolseal is down to the belly!
(Note to self: don't use Koolseal ever again. If you have the urge, hit your fingers with the waffle headed framing hammer!)

I think it would be neat if someone buys the place and puts some work into it.

I see a lot of potential here, but I can't do anything about it, so it's all up to you!

Dallas

[DavidInWilmNC]

I think the idea of a campground being owned by people who actually use them is a great idea.  I'm not sure how the details would work, but perhaps something like a 'time share' with two individuals owning one site and splitting the usage would work.  It'd give a bit more initial investment $$'s.  Like a time share, the sites could be rented with the owners' agreement with a portion of the proceeds going to the party who'se period of usage is rented.  We've stayed there twice for Dallas and Cat's gatherings and think there is a lot of potential.  Some of the expansion costs would have to be spread around through all the owners, sort of like association fees.  Alternately, the members wanting the newly expanded sites, which could be much nicer than existing sites, could cover a larger portion of the expansion of 'their' site.  There are a lot of possibilities, as well as a lot of potential problems.  I guess I'm thinking of it as a RV Park with condo ownership with partial ownership of common areas.  Management fees could come out of rentals of sites.  Anyway, it's an interesting idea with lots of potential.  I'd be interested in participating in it, if there is enough interest from others.

David

[H3Jim]

 I would think an LLC to limit the liability of the owners might be a good idea.  As a potential investor, I would not want a disaster here to affect any of my other holdings.  As part of putting an LLC together, an operating agreement should also be assembed that details the rights and responsibilties of all, as well as defines how sales, transfers (voluntary and involutary) would be handled, usage, captial improvements, credit for sweat equity etc etc etc would all be  handled.  If every one of these possiblities is not foreseen and a method developed to handle it, trying to get 20 or 60 or more people to agree later would likely generate the headache of the century.

But I agree, it is an intriguing possibililty...

[busboy]

I've bought and sold 1 campground and now own another in Missouri.  I can tell you that there are a lot of hidden costs to running
a campground...there is also a lot of work involved.  Most campgrounds are bought on potential earnings because you don't know how much skimming the previous owner did, one for me and one for Uncle Sam!  If you had some revenue numbers you trusted, a rough(depends on a lot of factors) rule of thumb is a campground will sell for between 4 and 7 times gross revenues.  It's been my experience that you need a visionary to work the project and take it to its potential, in this case, who would that be?  I'm not sure I would want to be an investor as I have more than enought to say grace over here getting my new park to its potential, but I'm happy to give advice if wanted.
-Brent

[captain ron]

A big thing in Florida is Campominiums. You buy your site then stay there as long or short of a period you want to. When not using the site the management rents the lot on a as needed basis and the money is split between the owner of said lot and the camp grounds.The amount of the split varies. For other Business ideas there's a camp ground in Alabama that caterers to motorcycles and has several different packages to offer for various needs. You can show up with just your MC and rent a tent,cabin or Rv. Your given a care package with tooth brush, shampoo, soap and washcloth and towel. or bring your own. It can also be used to host many different rallies, club events, family reunions, corporate parties and more. The business aspect and potential is huge and unlimited. Marketing is the key to success.

[H3Jim]

on the other hand, we could all just keep our $, and go where we want,  when we want, and have no headaches.  even several thousand will buy a lot of nights somewhere.

[bobofthenorth]

You just hit the nail squarely on the head Jim.  I have no problem investing in a campground AS AN INVESTMENT.  I have no problem owning recreational assets - a bus for example.  Where I come unglued is when people start trying to sell me on some combination of recreation and investment.  Emotion gets in the way of common sense in most of those situations and clouds everyone's judgement.  If somebody shows me the numbers and I believe this thing makes sense as an investment, then I'm in.  Alternatively, if someone sells me on it as recreation I could be in that way too. 

We rent our campsites now - a seasonal one close to home & a couple of others for extended stays during the balance of the year when our seasonal one is too *** cold to stay at.  We could buy resort property in any of the places where we currently stay for an extended period & maybe that would be a good idea - lord knows the market is red hot in a couple of the places we stay - but we have elected to clearly distinguish between investment and enjoyment.  Maybe its just that my brain is too simple to figure out the combination but that's the way its wired & I can't change it.

[Dallas]

Hey Ron,

Check out these campgrounds:

http://www.kickstandlodge.com/
and
http://www.ironhorsenc.com/

Both of these places were on the skids a few years back.

[captain ron]

I bought stock in Wal-Mart so now I can stay there free legally I'm sure my investment gets me 2 parking spaces. Officer it's ok I'm co-owner

[prevost82]

That's tooooo funny Ron

[John E. Smith]

I do have some reservations on your Truckstop data though.
Flying J already has a major truckstop 33 miles north at exit 183, I think.
Pilot has a major fuel stop at exit 164, 16 miles up the road, as does TA.
Petro is situated at exit 169 so that isn't a factor.

It seems to me, the major truckstops have about saturated the market in this area.

Here are the major truck stops in the area:

Flying J:
Exit 181A (Blacksburg)

Pilot:
Exit 164
Exit 170

Travelcenters of America:
Exit 164

Petro:
Exit 169

Having worked for Flying J, and having been a high-volume customer of Pilot for years (I used to own AJ's Trucking LLC before I retired), I have learned their expansion strategies.  The Flying J at Blacksburg is at or very near the end of its profitability cycle; it is of the original plaza design, and suffers from major plant failures regularly.  Flying J has a policy of replacing a property by building a new location within 40 miles of an older property, then scaling back operations at the older property to basic fuel & C-store operations.  Take a look at their operations in their home state (Utah), where the policy is that if you don't buy gas at a Flying J -- you walk   .  In the state of Utah, Flying J gas stations & fuel stops outnumber their competition 5 to 1.

Pilot, on the other hand, has a much more agressive expansion strategy -- especially in the southeast, which is their true market area.  They allot a 12 mile market radius around each fuel stop/ gas station and are actively building locations to fill that plan.  Pilot's fuel stops are built very cheaply on a "cookie cutter" plan, and operated at a very low profit margin; their plan lately has been geared more toward expansion rather than high profits.

So a major truck stop at exit 150 is a very real possibility within the next 3 to 5 years -- in fact, it is more like highly probable.  TA and Petro are not likely to build that close to another location -- unless Flying J or Pilot do.  If a large Pilot goes in, then it is almost a certainty that there will be a new TA and/ or Love's within 1 mile of it within a two year period.  And then you also have to take into account the independents, such as Wilco and others.  Wilco has adopted a pretty agressive strategy in the past few years, also.

As far as saturation, remember that we are talking about Interstate 95 here -- which has the highest rate of truck traffic of any interstate highway in the nation.  On this interstate, there is no such thing as "market saturation" when it comes to fuel and truck parking, I think!

[John E. Smith]

After cruising around the Google satelite imagery, I have to ask... what is the large warehouse on the other side of the interstate?  Is that a Walmart Distribution Center?  If it is, then I will bet anyone that there will be some sort of truckstop there within 2 years.