OT: Wanna buy a campground?

[ArtGill]

Keep me informed.  Even thou it is in the wrong Carolina I can come up with a grand or two.

Art

[bobofthenorth]

I don't think Ace's idea was necessarily bad.  I'd throw in a couple grand and be content to let an elected board actually run the place.  There's no reason why owner's sites have to be free - whoever uses it pays the same as everyone else - they get their bonus if the campground makes money.

[Linda-XL40-FL]

Don't forget the aspect of needing someone to handle the day-to-day operations, collect money, truthfully record the money collected on behalf of the owners, etc.

[NJT5047]

Dallas, how is the campground zoned?  Would a truck/bus garage be permitted on the upper end of the property (opposite where you're located)?   What does comps give on per acre basis for land in that area and how many acres of land is involved in the campground?
Is the whole of the lake actually within the campground property? 
It's unlikely that any small restaurant or family operated campground will show much cash flow in excess of operating expenses...not likely that there is a lot of cash flow, but owners of such properties will tend avoid the taxman by diverting cash.
It would seem that the location could be profitable on an annual basis, however, the profit potential is limited by the small number of campsites.  Some form of additional income could perhaps be generated due to proximity of the interstate...?   
Interesting possibilty.
I agree with Ross on ownership.  Not enough potential for a ton of owners, but a "timeshare" sort of arrangement could work. 
Hell, I could retire in my "timeshare" campsite!    Hmmm..that's not exactly how "timeshares" work is it? 
I'll see you Monday dude!  Don't forget to grab Cat's cellphone.
You still have my cellphone number?   704 650 0235
Best, JR 

[Nick Badame Refrig/ACC]

I think in order for this venture to generate profits, There needs to be a good busisness plan.

I'm referring to capitol to revamp the property so it would be up to standards, codes, and to be

competitive in order to generate a profit. I propose we set up a discovery commitee to generate

a plan of approach. This commitee can meet with Dallas and Cat and collect all the info they know,

and get a good prospective of the possibility's and the potentials. This way we can see the real money

that needs to be in place instead of just throwing numbers in the air. By the time of the auction, I would

like to know for sure, exactly what we should pay for the property. Not a penny more!

Let me know
Nick-

[WEC4104]

I like the fun of speculating about "what if" scenarios as much as the next guy, and a modest investment in a business venture sounds kinda neat.  But before we too far ahead of ourselves, lets look at some of the numbers being tossed around.

On the one hand, I am hearing the property has a five acre lake, about 45 existing sites, and room for maybe 80 more. I haven't heard anything about the total acreage, but it sounds like a pretty sizeable chunk of real estate.

Then we have folks basing their math on the property "going for $50-60K".  If the property size that I am picturing in my mind is correct, and they will sell it at auction for <$60K, where do I write the check?  The land, which is also near an interstate, has to be easily worth that, even as an open field.

From an investment standpoint you need to add in the cost of the existing structures, the cost of installing the 80 new sites, and the legal costs to set up the limited partnership or whatever investor structure would be used.

My gut feel says that even adding an extra zero behind the $60K number won't cover what is needed to get this off the ground.  Of course the other option is to get the investors to front enough money to satisfy bankers and secure loans to cover the remaining portion. If that is the case, the payback to investors is decreased while the bank loans are being repaid.  It is tricky too, because the limited partnership and loans would have to be arranged before the actual auction bidding.

Sorry to sound like such a wet blanket, but I don't see this getting off the ground for anywhere near the numbers discussed.  Buy hey, if there is a way to truely make this work for the figures being discussed, heck yeah I am interested.

[Dallas]

You bring up some good points WEC!
It's always best to look at the whole picture including the negative side of things.
It brings about a bit of sanity to what could otherwise be a foolish move.

Dallas

[NJT5047]

Dallas, if the campground thing don't work out, we got a place for you and Cat up here.  Can you get all your "stuff" in your bus?   You could even host a small rally here.  I've got an 8 acre pasture (weather sensitive) and about 5 more acres around the barn.  have 3000 SF inside a rough barn and a stage suitable for some minor amusement.   For the most part, it would be dry camping...but there's water and some power (Dallas, I could supply you with 50 A).  If I had some idea you would be interested in this, I would work on creating some power in large blocks that would enable power and water for 15 or 20 coaches....with power and mabe another 15 dry camping.  We'd have to offer a "honeywagon" for them.  And a waterwagon.  I'll bet the honeywagon  would be a potential profit center....have you ever been full of $##T?   That's gotta go!   
Now I know you want to go further South...but, hey...you'll find the price is right and my zoning (R-A) allows me to do whatever I want.  I can park ya'll up here into perpetuity.   
Regarding the value of Hornydew Campground, land in the scrub areas of South Carolina may or may not be especially valuable.  That's something that would have to evaluated.   Most folk are not interested in owning camgrounds due to the seasonal forces, and constant issues with "settlers" that may not understand our customs and language.   
This has changed dramatically in the last few years.  And I've been loosely associated with two campgrounds that closed up due to an inability to turn the sites over and not allow "squatting" on a site by transient workers. 
If this interests anyone, and Dallas wishes to join us and manage (consult?) this event, consider it on.  I'm OK with it. I'm great for going back to T'ville too!  LET ME KNOW!   
Cheers, JR

[Nick Badame Refrig/ACC]

WOW JR,

You certainly have a big hart. I'm glad we have folks like you in our club willing to offer a part of your

life and possesions to another bus nut. Even if they don't need your offer, it sure is warming to have someone

give you another option in a matter that is as great as facing loosing your homestead.

Thanks for being a part of this board! I'm sure Dallas and Cat feel the same way...

Nick-

[John E. Smith]

I think if the campground in question is going to go for around 50-60K then 50 or 60 busnuts can come up with a grand or two each,

No offense Ace, but a business venture with 50 partners?  The only way it would work would be to condo the sites so each investor owned thier site...and nothing more than thier site.  If each person owned a share of the entire property, you'd have 50 pissed off people most of the time.  Try to get 50 people to agree on anything and you'll see what I mean.  The only way would be to buy with as few partners as possible who you trust blindly.

Option two would be for a "corporation" to buy it then sell shares.  Share holders would profit if the business profits, but just like in the real world, the board would control the business.

Ross

Just like an SKP campground...

For those of you not familiar with the concept, the Escapee's RV Club of Livingston, Texas runs several campgrounds on this principle; I "work-camped" at the one in Lakewood, NM for a while and I have to tell you, it was almost complete anarchy!  The place was ostensibly run by a Board of Directors but, because of the terms of the site purchase agreements, every site owner had a say in the day to day operation of the campground as a whole.

It was a mess, from a work-camper's standpoint.  I would be given tasks by the campground manager, then those would be interrupted throughout the day by individual site owners.  I could not refuse them, and the BOD refused to assert themselves to stop this from happening.  After being called on the carpet for not getting my work done because of this, I finally quit and moved on -- that was my last experience at "work-camping", too because it left such a bad impression.

What I am saying is that, if this works, this sort of thing needs to be avoided.  Site leases or purchase agreements need to be worded such that individual site owners DO NOT have the right to usurp the orderly functioning of the park or the employee's work assignments.  Make sure that only the BOD can make decisions relating to this sort of thing, which are then handed down to the park manager for scheduling and assignment to the workers.

[John E. Smith]

By the way, I will volunteer to manage it if the plan goes through... I think I have the right experience mix!

[Dallas]

Hey, JR,
Thanks for the offer! that's really cool!

We are still looking around here for a place to campout until we find a permanent site so Cat can keep her job.

She also said she will look at her companies internal bulletin board to see if there is anything she could transfer to up at the Charlotte office!

And Nick is right! You do have a big heart!


Dallas

[oldmansax]

There have been many good points made here but I think Nick has brought up one of the most pressing. There is a time factor here. If indeed the property is up for auction next month we have almost no time left to come up with a business plan, form a company, elect officers, obtain financing, and buy the property. An exploratory committee is an excellent idea if we get on with it.

I have taken the liberty of doing some online research and it appears the property is assessed at $91,000. I doubt if the owner would take that for it. I think someone should contact the existing owner and see if we can buy the property sans the auction. He also may be able to point us to local financing.

I would be glad to do that if it is OK with everyone else. My only limitation is I live in Maryland. I can make a trip down to SC if this looks feasible. I would also back someone else making contact, but we need to get moving NOW.

If we are not going to pursue this together, I think we should be free to pursue it separately, but I don't want to step on anybodies toes or get into a bidding war. Feel free to contact me via email.

[belfert]

Remember that assessments often are not based on market value especiially in more rural areas. 

I'm looking for 3 to 5 acres to build a new house on.  Lots are often assessed at $10,000 to $20,0000, but the market value is around $80,000.

[Ross]

If its serious sale (absolute auction) I'd be interested in looking at it (tried to email but couldn't)

Seeing as how this is not a tax related auction and just a private sale auction, my guess would be that there will be a reserve.  If the auctioneer is doing his job, he will do a comparative value search and set the reserve accordingly.  Just a guess, but with a tax assessment at $91,000, I'll bet the reserve will be higher than that.

.....Unless the owners just want out and don't care what it sells for.  Then it could be a good deal.

Ross