New year... new problem :/

[Geom]

Hey guys, happy new year!!!

First off, I wanna say that I hate that it looks like I pop on here only when there's an issue, but know that I do lurk and read threads, just don't have much to contribute...

Anyway, as some of you know we had a rather catastrophic engine problem last year that we're still reeling from.
After we put the new engine in, we really didn't do that much driving, but we'd been driving the bus a bit more over the last few months and trying to get back on the road.

So far everything had seemed ok and she was running pretty well.
We were making our way out toward Quartzsite, for the big "show" and to hopefully meet some of the fine folks on this board.
We were at a BLM area in Tonopah, AZ and having a good time (well until our beloved dog of 12 years passed away, but that's a whole other story).

When we went to leave last week, I was checking the engine bay as usual after a start, and noticed what sounded like a clanging sound. It was definitely mechanical, and it was somewhere on the driver's side of the engine. I could not tell exactly where it was coming from, but current suspects are the generator/alternator, air compressor, or transmission. The problem only started to happen when the engine was in gear, and it was only luck that I noticed it -as I don't make a point of having the engine in gear while I'm outside 

Anyway, we had a short distance to drive (only went to Saddle Mountain RV park a few miles down the road for a dump-n-fill). By the time I finished freaking out about what it could be, the sound had completely stopped.
So we risked it and drove to the park.
We made it to the park ok and have stayed the rest for the week.

Now fast forward to today, when we were about to hit the road to make our way toward Q. Well I started the engine as usual and everything sounded fine. But this time I wanted to intentionally be outside when the bus was in gear to see if I could regenerate the sound. So I had Julie put it in gear (reverse first, since that's what seems to have triggered it last time), and had her drive in reverse. It didn't do it at first. So then I had her put it in drive and move forward a little. That's when I could hear the sound clearly. It's a metallic clanking sound that clanks occasionally. It can be pretty loud at times. So I attempted to get the camera so I can record the sound. Well in that amount of time (roughly 5 minutes or so) the sound had stopped. But for that 5+ minutes it was definitely making the sound. So we played with it a bit more, taking it into gear, out of gear, reverse, forward, throttle up in place in gear... nothing. No sound.

As we were shutting down, Julie noticed the RPM gauge was not working. The RPM is triggered by the generator/alternator. So we fired it back up again, and this time checked for charging, and lo and behold, no charging either.

So, after giving it some thought, we decided to not push our luck and camp here for a bit longer, and seek y'all's council.

So what are your thoughts?
I tried to get my head in there and really listen, but it sounded like it was coming from everywhere on that passenger side.
It seems to completely stop after either it's warm, or settled, or air is full, or the gremlins stop chewing it up, or or or? Hard to tell.

The alternator is definitely not charging, though, and no RPM either. All wires are still in place and nice and tight.
At this point I'm really nervous to drive it. From what I've heard, if it's that flippin' engine-attached/cam-driven POS, I'm worried it could cause issues with the engine.
I had the dum****s at Farmington double-check to make sure the timing and gears (between it and the cam) all lined up, and as everyone here said, make sure they "blue-mark" it to make sure it's hitting on the right gears. I also had them check it to make sure the bearings are in good shape, etc. Not sure how much of that latter part they actually did, but they swore up and down that they checked the gear alignment.

What do you think my options are? Can I drive it? If I disengage the generator field wires, then could I drive it???
I don't care about it charging the batteries. I have a pair of ginormous 8Ds for start and they're in decent shape. Whenever we're parked, I use an automatic charger to keep them healthy, anyway. So I'm not concerned about charging with it at the moment, as I could easily make up for that.

Where can I go or have look at it around here?

Anyway, we're staying here at least another night while we regroup.
I'm not sure what we're going to do, and I'm about at wits end with this %$^$%^$%^ bus!!!
But I also don't want to make things worse.

Your help and advice on this is greatly appreciated, as always,
George

[Geoff]

I would not drive the bus.  A knocking noise is not good.  If it's your alternator it could wipe out your gear train and engine.  I had a V730 with a similar knock and the nut had backed off on inner shaft that held the beveled gear on. 

[chessie4905]

Two possibilities to me. One could be that torque converter bolts are loose. The other is the alternator drive has an issue. You could use a mechanics stethoscope to verify that. I wouldn't drive it till you check it. You could have a mechanic remove it and check for any loose or broken parts. If noise is still there, could be torque converter. BTW, coach can be driven without alternator. Just install a fabricated block off plate over the hole and carefully tape over wire ends. Mine was that way when purchased. Some mechanic convinced previous owner it would save 30 hp. Guy ran gen set when needed. No charge light stays on all the time. I pulled the temp cover and cup gear and adapter are both there. I have a good alternator to install, but need to set up dial indicator to make sure mounting adapter is concentric to gear. Procedure is in shop manual and very important that it is correct

[Scott & Heather]

And this is precisely why some guys swap to a belt driven pulley setup. I'd like to do this myself. Ticking time bomb in my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[luvrbus]

George, when it starts to rattle have her turn the steering wheel if it goes away you lost the coupling on the power steering pump.If you need some help to be sure.
I have a good friend about 40 miles from you that owns a shop if he is home he will come to you ,Kevin Looney 602-810-1845 and he will treat you right

[Oonrahnjay]

George, when it starts to rattle have her turn the steering wheel if it goes away you lost the coupling on the power steering pump.If you need some help to be sure.
I have a good friend about 40 miles from you that owns a shop if he is home he will come to you ,Kevin Looney 602-810-1845 and he will treat you right   

     Is the coupling on the power steering pump related to the alternator?  (It makes sense to me that - if it is the power steering - it knocks on startup but then as the pressure builds up and stablizes, doesn't knock anymore.  I was just wondering if the PS pump is connected to the alternator.  Not doubting you, Clifford, I just don't know DD engines and was wondering how they work.)

[Templar52]

If the alternator coupling was in fault it will certainly not stopping making noise.
Are you sure that the noise is not comming from the unloading valves from the compressor ?
It look like there is two différents issue there.

[luvrbus]

Bruce, those engines transmit noise from 1 end to the other and are hard to pin point ,the power steering pump on most GM are directly under the alternator if not on the blower drive.
It is sorta like looking for the fathom battery draw that kill the batteries except you have no fuses to pull to find rhe bad circuit.Sean had a coupling go bad on his NeoPlan that sounded like the alternator. I use a Steelman electronic stethoscope it does good at detecting lot better than a old over the ear with a probe. 
If George dosen't get help and makes it to Quartzsite I'll drive over and lend him a hand it only 2 hours from me  

[Oonrahnjay]

Bruce, those engines transmit noise from 1 end to the other and are hard to pin point ,the power steering pump on most GM are directly under the alternator if not on the blower drive.
It is sorta like looking for the fathom battery draw that kill the batteries except you have no fuses to pull to find rhe bad circuit.Sean had a coupling go bad on his NeoPlan that sounded like the alternator. I use a Steelman electronic stethoscope it does good at detecting lot better than a old over the ear with a probe. 
If George dosen't get help and makes it to Quartzsite I'll drive over and lend him a hand it only 2 hours from me  

      Thanks, Clifford.  That helps me understand what's going on. 

[B_K]

He could always use the same method of a grand entry to the "Q" by arriving on a Landoll as Ed did last year! Planty of hands will come out of the wood work to assist just to be a part of it. 
  BK 

[luvrbus]

He could always use the same method of a grand entry to the "Q" by arriving on a Landoll as Ed did last year! Planty of hands will come out of the wood work to assist just to be a part of it. 
  BK 

LOL then I had to drive to Quartzsite to get Ed running

[Geom]

He could always use the same method of a grand entry to the "Q" by arriving on a Landoll as Ed did last year! Planty of hands will come out of the wood work to assist just to be a part of it. 
  BK 

LOL, BK we could start a whole new tradition...
Just tell the landoll driver to point us in the direction where he sees a good bunch of buses and plop us down there 


Thanks for the info and diagnostic steps. I really appreciate it.

I wondered about the PS pump. All that stuff is right there -alternator, PS pump, air compressor, and tranny bell-housing. And Clifford you're absolutely right about the sounds on this thing pinging from one end of that engine to the other. It's really hard to localize it. But if I had to, I'd say it's above the trans housing, and more localized to that component cluster on the passenger side of the engine, with the PS pump, alternator, and air compressor all inches from one another.

I will add that I continue to add trans fluid to the tranny, but I can't get it to register on the stick higher than the lowest mark. I tested it, in neutral while running. Initially it didn't appear on the stick at all. Then I added a quart and that got it to register, but adding an additional quart increased it none at all! So I'm not sure where all of that oil is going. I don't see any huge puddles of oil under the bus. We do have a small leak in the trans pan. I had the geniuses in Farmington drop the trans pan to check things out and make sure all looks good -while also changing the fluid and filter. Since then the pan leaks oil (it never leaked before).
So I used some silicone gasket sealant (on the outside lip of the pan) to try to control it a bit - until I can get to a legit shop with someone who knows what they're doing to replace the gasket. So I'm not sure where that oil is going or if it's related to this. It shifts perfectly fine and solidly hits all shift points and lockups (near as I can tell). So I'm hesitant to dump any more oil in there.
The trans oil does have a secondary radiator that's attached to the outside of the engine rad, and has oil routed to it from the bell-housing, to the radiator, and back in. Perhaps they never fully filled that radiator?? 

I also tried to listen to the PS pump when it was running. It sounded "OK", but definitely hard to tell. I did also have Farmington replace the PS pump, because the old one was having issues. Perhaps it flamed out....

So it's possible there's a compound issue? Because the alternator is also not providing RPM signal and doesn't appear to he charging either....

Clifford, thanks a lot for the info on your friend here locally. I plan on giving him a call. Hate to call him on a Sunday, but at least I can get the ball rolling with a voicemail perhaps.

Still hoping we can make Q, but that light is dimming a bit more... we'll see

I will report back as I gather more info. I'm hesitant to start it a whole bunch more times (that it might make things worse). But we'll see.

Thanks again!
George

[Templar52]

George,do you have the hability to check your oil filter by open it?
Very easy,you remoove it,open it and squize the paper element on your hand. If you see metal on the paper,dont start your engine anymore. If you don't see any  metal dust you can continue your diagnostic.
For the generator,check if you have 6 volts at the R on the generator. If you don't have 6 volts over there maybe the relay is burn. You also have a relay just beside your voltage regulator. Whent you put the ignition on,There is suppose to have voltage 12 or 24 volts at the P position on the regulator. If not,the relay is no good .
Just a start......

[luvrbus]

Did you get help today George

[Geom]

Did you get help today George

Clifford, I called and left a message for Kevin. He was busy and said he'd call me back sometime today. So hopefully we'll be able to make contact today.

I've been giving this some thought, and I think I'm just going to pull that alternator (whether or not its the current culprit). That thing has been a source of concern and fear for me for some time. I should've just had them leave it off. But I, in no way, trusted them to redo that with a pulley/belt driven alternator. So I figured this one could last long enough till I got to a competent mechanic. And now I'm regretting that decision. I just didn't want to go completely without engine-driven recharge. Oh well.....
I'm considering removing the $%$%$ thing myself, but that thing weighs a ton and I'm not sure how much oil will drip out once I do remove it. Plus I don't have a replacement cover-plate for it or a way to fashion one, here.

Unfortunately I'm in an RV park and can't do too much playing around (so no pulling oil filter to look at, etc).
Once I talk with Kevin and figure out a plan, I can talk to the park people and see if they'd allow him to work on my bus here on-site.
The alternative option is to tow it out of here -which I would think would be more disruptive overall :/