Trip ends in tragedy

[belfert]

I'm glad you weren't hurt.  Will the insurance company keep all the RV components that were added to the bus if they total the bus?  If you could find temporary storage you might be better off buying it back to remove anything that is still good.

I would be out of the bus business if this happened to me.  I don't know that I could even buy just a decent shell for what my bus is insured for.  You can get 102DL3 buses with Series 60 and B500 pretty cheap these days, but mechanical repairs and tires would probably cost close to $15,000.

[Scott & Heather]

Oh my stars. Saying prayers for you and the family....oh man. This is crazy


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[Scott & Heather]

Richard was this crash in Cedar Rapids? Two people are listed as deceased in that crash?


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[David Anderson]

http://whotv.com/2017/09/30/jefferson-county-man-killed-in-head-on-collision-with-rv/

Here is the report

[Zephod]

Wow! Glad you are both ok. Unfortunately you won't get anything of significance for repairs. They'll say " almost 60 year old bus, worth nothing in their books so totaled. Sorry for your lost. Probably can use some items on next conversion, if accident didn't turn you against them. Too bad other driver lost his life due to error.

The other drivers insurance should cover fixing the bus.


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[belfert]

The other drivers insurance should cover fixing the bus.

No matter whose insurance pays the bus would probably be considered totaled as the insurance company would find the repair costs to be more than they consider the bus to be worth.  Where would you find a repair shop with the parts and expertise to repair a 60 year old bus?  There is a company called Coachcrafters in Orlando that specializes in collision repair to buses.  They used to have another facility here in Minnesota that I visited once.  They were doing a front end repair on a transit bus that was a $250,000 job.  The bus was almost new so it was worth spending $250,000.

My parents were in a four car accident where one of the drivers was considered 100% at fault.  His insurance totaled my parent's car instead of repairing it.  My parents got fair market value for the car.

[Zephod]

No matter whose insurance pays the bus would probably be considered totaled as the insurance company would find the repair costs to be more than they consider the bus to be worth.  Where would you find a repair shop with the parts and expertise to repair a 60 year old bus?  There is a company called Coachcrafters in Orlando that specializes in collision repair to buses.  They used to have another facility here in Minnesota that I visited once.  They were doing a front end repair on a transit bus that was a $250,000 job.  The bus was almost new so it was worth spending $250,000.

My parents were in a four car accident where one of the drivers was considered 100% at fault.  His insurance totaled my parent's car instead of repairing it.  My parents got fair market value for the car.

But he's entitled to have it put back as it was. Fair market value is just a scam insurers like to pull.

[muldoonman]

But he's entitled to have it put back as it was. Fair market value is just a scam insurers like to pull.

Can tell you ain't ever dealt with a insurance company with this sort of thing. Had a Ranch Truck ran into (parked)  and Allstate (azzhole that ran into me ins. co.) offered me X dollars. Went round and round for months. My lawyer said better take what they offer as they have bigger pockets than you. They live for lawsuits and dragging things out.

[Zephod]

Can tell you ain't ever dealt with a insurance company with this sort of thing. Had a Ranch Truck ran into (parked)  and Allstate (azzhole that ran into me ins. co.) offered me X dollars. Went round and round for months. My lawyer said better take what they offer as they have bigger pockets than you. They live for lawsuits and dragging things out.

Sounds like you need a refund from that lawyer.


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[muldoonman]

Sounds like you need a refund from that lawyer.


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Didn't charge me. Just free sound advice.

[belfert]

No insurance company is going to spend more than a vehicle is worth on repairs.  It doesn't matter who is at fault.  People would be staging accidents all the time to get insurance payouts if that was the case and insurance would cost a whole lot more.  Yes, it sucks if you have a nicely maintained older vehicle and you don't want to buy a different used car that may have been abused.  Sure, you can hire a lawyer to try to fight the insurance company, but the insurance companies have a lot more lawyers than you do.

I feel for Richard as it sucks having a nice bus and then having it totaled by no fault of his own.  At least nobody in the bus was hurt.

[richard5933]

We both woke this morning still in a daze trying to get our head wrapped around all this. I've been up a lot last night running this through my head trying to see what could have been done differently. I'll be posting with updates to how the bus held up, what happened, etc. Right now we're both still amazed we walked away with nothing more serious than a banged knuckle - probably from my  laying on the horn and white knuckling the steering wheel.

If it seems that I'm too occupied with details at this point, it's because it helps me process what happened. I have not fully left the hyperdrive mode from yesterday, and when I do I'm sure it will be even more difficult to write about what happened so I'm doing it now.

We do have a dashcam video which shows the scene up to the point of impact. If someone can tell me how, I'll post it or link to it. I think that others should see just how quickly this whole thing unfolded (4 sec).

To answer the insurance question is a big unknown. We have a declared value policy so if our insurance ends up paying that's the most we'd get. We set the value when we first bought it in May, but at this point it would only cover half of what we have invested. My plan was to have an appraisal done when I buttoned up the last of the improvements for the year. If the other driver had insurance (we still don't know - indications are he did but we don't know for certain) then we will push them to pay the appraised value of how it sat just prior to the accident. The person we bought from runs a charter company and is going to put us in touch with an appraiser.

If the other driver had coverage then we should do much better, but I still don't think we'll fully recover our investment. The minimum coverage in Iowa is only $15,000, which would only barely cover our initial purchase price. Our coverage would kick in after, but only to the declared value amount. Oy.

We still don't know what our next steps will be. We feel like we've lost a friend, as the bus has occupied every waking moment since we brought it home in the spring. We'd like to replace it, but with what is a difficult question that we'll be having to deal with in the coming weeks. How much insurance helps will be a big deciding factor. After seeing the damage to a coach as solid as ours, I can't image going to a S&S. Anything not as strong as a 4106 is out of the question.

I did a lot of thinking last night about what I could have done differently. I questioned whether I could have braked harder, but the shoulder was soft with a ditch/ravine beyond it. I didn't want to lose control by locking the wheels and then heading into the ravine.

I thought that I should have been able to keep in a straight line after impact. But in reality the steering linkage was torn away on impact and I was holding a useless steering wheel after that.

The bus seemed to take too long to come to a stop after impact. Did I not brake hard enough? Apparently the air system was shredded on impact and we had no brakes anyhow. I could have pulled the handbrake, but I was focused on steering us towards the flattest part of the ravine and away from the house. I didn't know the steering wheel was not connected to anything.

The impact did a lot of damage to the corner of the bus. Had that been the only damage it might be repairable. But, when we got to the uphill side of the ravine the nose of the bus caught the earth and pulled the front of the bus down. the nose has dropped a few inches with a crease across the roof from driver's window to entry door. The side of the bus looks like an aluminum can which has been twisted/crushed with ripples all the way down. There are rivets popped out that we can see. I'm sure there are many we can't. It's unlikely that the bus can be repaired without exceeding value, and even if it could I would never feel safe driving it again.

I've been a 'belt and suspenders' kind of person for a long time. Good thing, as all the safety precautions seemed to have helped hold things together. The newly mounted generator stayed put, the black tank held solid, the batteries stayed under their straps, and all the interior items stayed put other than some paperwork and lightweight cups, etc. The new seat belts kept us in our seats, and I was able to do a normal shutdown procedure from the driver's seat - mostly on autopilot at that point since I don't remember it. We had to exit from the sliding Peninsula window since we could not open the door from the inside. I wanted us away in case of fire, but the fuel and electrical systems appear to have remained intact.

If you have specific questions, please ask. I'll try to post more as I think of things that might be helpful to others.

Richard

[Scott & Heather]

Oh Richard I'm just so sorry...this is a lot to handle in a short time. Keep talking it through, it will help you. I know this goes without saying but you absolutely cannot blame yourself. He made a fatal error and you couldn't have done anything beyond what you did without endangering your life or your wife. I'm so so sorry.


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[luvrbus]

Oh Richard I'm just so sorry...this is a lot to handle in a short time. Keep talking it through, it will help you. I know this goes without saying but you absolutely cannot blame yourself. He made a fatal error and you couldn't have done anything beyond what you did without endangering your life or your wife. I'm so so sorry.


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It is forever in your mind if some one is killed in a accident where you are at fault or not,it happen to me 45 years ago when a young man came around a car riding a motorcycle and hit me head on that picture in my mind is as clear to day as it was 45 years ago

[bigred]

Wow!!! The fact that a Honda Civic can do this kind of damage to one of these things doesn't exactly leave one with the warm fuzzes does it ??