Some pondering: How many bus conversions exist?

[Jeremy]

The bus-to-motorhome thing is one of those numbers which probably has never been published or reported anywhere before because no-one official has ever cared about it, but the number almost certainly exists in a computer somewhere and could be outputted instantaneously by a programmer running a simple database query.

I've never done it myself by I believe getting hold of that kind of information here is (in theory) just a matter of filling-in a form, and the relevant public department or body are obliged to respond within a certain amount of time - or else give some 'national security' type reason to justify why they won't provide the information. Journalists obtain data like this all the time for their news articles, so if it happened that you knew anyone in that area they might well be the best person to ask how to proceed

Jeremy

[richard5933]

Changes of title from bus to motorhome must be recorded by the DMV authorities - I don't know about in the States but in Europe there's a Public Information Request process whereby anyone can apply to receive statistics and data of that sort

Jeremy

Some (like mine) were never titled as buses. They were converted on new shells and titled directly as motor homes. Or house cars, depending on the year and/or state.

Would be interesting to see the numbers created vs. the numbers still on the road.

Of course, going by registration numbers alone would give a false picture - many buses are still around and either functional or in a state where they could be made functional but not registered. I believe that most states will allow a privately owned vehicle to be unregistered if not being driven, so it would be nearly impossible to know how many are out there in total based on registrations. Not just the ones slowly rotting in a driveways somewhere, there are also buses being used as permanent houses parked in RV parks and trailer communities.

I'd also be curious of the many school bus conversions how many make it more than a few years before they stop being registered and fall off the radar.

[windtrader]

It might not be that hard to get a reasonable idea from existing title/registration data. If you can get a list of RV by manufacturer, you'll get close pretty fast. Of course this is by state but an MCI registered as an RV is a strong indicator it was converted at some point. Conversion only might also show up like Prevost RVs.


RV industry organizations likely possess these numbers so another way to get at them.

[richard5933]

Current registration date would not show anything for all the buses out there which are not registered. My guess is that there are many out there not showing as registered anywhere, and even if one pulled years of data there would be no way to determine the actual numbers. An unregistered bus could be under current conversion, rotting away in a back field, or already in the scrap bin.

[Jeremy]

It might not be that hard to get a reasonable idea from existing title/registration data. If you can get a list of RV by manufacturer, you'll get close pretty fast. Of course this is by state but an MCI registered as an RV is a strong indicator it was converted at some point. Conversion only might also show up like Prevost RVs.

Yes, agreed - that's the way to get around the conversions-from-brand-new-shells issue

Regarding the still-around-but-not-currently-registered issue:- again I don't know the US system but here in the UK vehicles are always "registered" because registration is simply a record of ownership, and transferring the registration is part of the selling a vehicle and only if a vehicle is scrapped there's a procedure to de-register it. Since the registered owner is liable for any vehicle-related fines they are highly motivated to ensure these procedures are followed, so there are very few unregistered vehicles about.

But 'registration' in the US may mean the same as 'taxed' here, which is an on-going charge (paid monthly, six-monthly or yearly) paid by the owner to actually use the vehicle on the road. Again the system here is closely controlled and owners who aren't currently using their vehicle on the road have to register it as OFF the road - known as SORNing it (Statutory Off-Road Notification) - or else receive an automatic fine. My own bus has been SORNed for several years straight whilst I convert it, while my '77 Trans Am is SORNed during the winter months and taxed during the summer months for example.

So in the UK at least you could get the DVLA (our equivalent of the DMV) to search their database in various ways and supply exact number on conversions-on-new-shells, conversions-that-were-once-buses, conversions-still-registered, conversions-currently-on-the-road, conversions-currently-SORNed, conversions-that-have-been-scrapped, etc

Jeremy

[richard5933]

In the US, at least in the states I've lived in, registration is much more loosey-goosey than it sounds like things in the UK are. When one purchases a vehicle they usually get a bill of sale from the seller. Take that to the motor vehicle department, and they'll issue an official title to the vehicle. The title is nothing more than a state-certification that establishes ownership of the vehicle.

Under usual circumstances a new owner will want to title transferred as soon as possible, but not always. I sold a motorcycle to a friend about 10 years ago, and just recently I learned that he had not yet transferred the title to his name. I had a feeling that was going to happen, so shortly after selling it I contacted our local motor vehicles office and requested that they take my name from the official records for this vehicle. That was done, and for the past years the vehicle was officially ownerless, all the time it was used in two or three different states. The reason he never titled it in his name? He didn't want to pay the taxes and fees.

Usually the vehicle gets registered at the same time that title is issued, but it's possible to do a title transfer without doing registration.The registration is usually done annually, but for some vehicles (usually commercial or larger) it can be monthly or quarterly. The registration is what gives one a plate to put on the vehicle and makes it legal to operate on public roads.

Some vehicles, such as those used exclusively for farm use or on private roads, will never be registered. I've also encountered some governmental agencies that will operate vehicles for years without an official title or registration - an example is a '52 Suburban I purchased from the Illinois forestry department years ago which they had received from the National Guard. The vehicle had not been titled or registered for many of the years it was operated in the State Forest - apparently a paperwork oversight. Was a mess when I went to get title and registration in my name.

My point? Simply that many of the out-of-service buses parked around the country will not be on any official record.

[Jeremy]

Some vehicles, such as those used exclusively for farm use or on private roads, will never be registered. I've also encountered some governmental agencies that will operate vehicles for years without an official title or registration - an example is a '52 Suburban I purchased from the Illinois forestry department years ago which they had received from the National Guard. The vehicle had not been titled or registered for many of the years it was operated in the State Forest - apparently a paperwork oversight. Was a mess when I went to get title and registration in my name.

As a similar example from here, I bought a Vortec 350 small block and it's gearbox from a Chevy step van that had spent all it's life running-around the USAF base at Lakenheath in Suffolk. It had been brought over from the States and never registered for use on UK roads, which made it effectively unsellable when the Air Force wanted to dispose of it after a standard 5 years or whatever. So rather than selling it as a running vehicle it went, along with all the other USAF vehicles from Lakenheath, to a contracted scrap merchant nearby who no-doubt paid pennies-on-the-dollar for them and  broke them for parts for sale to people like me

Jeremy

[Dave5Cs]

Other than filing for a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) by state there would be little chance you would get close. My guess is 3,600 Bus Conversions By looking at these 3 boards.

https://www.nfoic.org/coalitions/state-foi-resources/state-freedom-of-information-laws

[luvrbus]

There are around 900 Eagles registered in the US we checked that out a few years ago,makes no difference if it is titled as a RV or not the Vin number will always show it as a bus when the DMV runs the Vin

[Ed Hackenbruch]

One thing that surprised me when we were fulltiming is the number of people that we met that had buses but did not use computers. 

[Dave5Cs]

We drove across and up the country and only saw two other buses the whole time. any I have ever talked to on the road when asked if they were on the Bus board they said what bus boards? LOL

[daveola]

In the states, vehicles that may end up on the road again are supposed to be registered as PNO (planned non-operational) for a small fee, otherwise you'll be in for it when you try to register them again.

There are certainly going to be some illegal vehicles out there (not registered) but I don't think that'll hurt the numbers much.

If it's sitting in a field rusting away and not registered PNO, then it's probably done for, and isn't something I would count as a current 'bus on the road'

So - maybe filing 50 FOIA would get us the numbers in the states.  I'll check with one of my journalist friends and see if they think that such a check would succeed.

How did we come up with the 900 Eagles number?

[daveola]

And in California (and I'm presuming most states) if the bus has been converted it's likely to be an MH instead of a BU.  If your vehicle is still BU, then you probably need a CDL (commercial driver's license) to drive it, so the incentive is high to re-register it as an MH.  I'm sure there will be a couple that are illegally driven without a CDL, and some CDL owners who left it as a BU, but those numbers are likely to be fairly small as well, I would guess.

[pd4501-771]

I think these "planned non-operational" registrations you speak of vary by state. I bet some do not have them at all. (the good ones' in my opinion) Here in Illinois if you are late renewing plates, it's a one time late fee of $20. So if you decide to stop driving a vehicle, and 30 years later, re-register, it's a $20 late fee. Antiques plates, and all trailers are exempt from any late fees. 

Antique buses are exempt from CDL requirements here as well.

[luvrbus]

The origin of title (manufacture) Vin will always belong to a bus that is Federal not a state regulation,some states issue 2 titles one for the chassis and 1 for the conversion,I have a RV with Idaho plates that has 2 titles