New York bound with wheel seal woes - plus VMSPC screen shot

[Brian Diehl]

"he spun the wheel in the direction to tighten the adjuster nut and jammed a long punch between the spinning hub and the nut. He commented that this method gave him a better feel for how tight the nut was than he got using a socket and breaker bar".

Exactly how I was taught to do it..cept I always used cold chisels...

Infact i was told by a fellow that worked for Timken that if you look at a bearing in rotation, you will see each individual roller rotating, when each roller is turning uniformly/synchronous  in relation to each other, that is good enough. tighten as far as necsasary to facilitate the lock and your done. Did many (over 40 years) this way and never lost a one, bearing or seal.

Were I you and my seal was leaking from the outer circumference , and this has happened more than once, I would install the next one with loctite bearing set compound.

Loctite ® 609™ is a low viscosity, rapid-curing anaerobic adhesive that augments the strength of press fit assemblies or slip fit assemblies up to 0.005"in diameter. Adds up to 3,000 psi holding power. Recommended for parts that will need subsequent dismantling, i.e., retention of bearings onto shafts and into housings.

I'm not quite sure I understand the "jamming" part of this.  If the hub is spinning what is the punch jammed into?

As far as Loctite 609 - is this generally available and easy to find or a special order part only?

[Brian Diehl]

Brian, Which way are you heading? East?

Tom - We'll head over to Albany on Tuesday.  We will be in the area for a couple of weeks while my wife starts treatment for Lyme disease.

[Brian Diehl]

Triseal premium wheel seals will stop those leaks that keep coming back fwiw I have always used SKF Scotseal till I tried the Triseal big difference and easy to install 

Clifford - I have a mohawk brand seal in right now.  Is the Triseal better than that?

[Brian Diehl]

Hey Brian, do you ever get CE or SE lights with intake air temps that high?  Cummins engineering told me that up in that area and you will get a ramp down or light, it's happened on my ISM before.  Correction:  that's at 170 deg. not 70 deg.

Hi Boomer,

I've never seen my intake air temps above the 90s.  In this picture you see the intake manifold temp is 86.  The ambient outside temperature was 75 - 80 during the same time.  I have seen the intake manifold stay generally 10 degrees above ambient at full throttle loads.  So, no, I've never seen an CE light come on.

Oh, and about your VMSPC thingy.... Holy crap! Talk about distracted driving!

Craig - it really isn't this bad in actual practice.  I know what every gauge is and what its purpose is.  When I need to know something I can look directly at the piece of information I'm looking for and then back to the road within a second or two.  I also look at less information in busy areas as all my attention is required on the road.  So - don't let the amount of information be overwhelming.  A quick one second glance is all it takes.  In fact, it takes me less time to see the coolant temp on the VMSPc readout than it does for me to see it on the gauge on the dash.  To see coolant temp on the dash gauge I have to lean forward to see between the steering wheel and down in the hole the gauge is set into.  I just don't understand MCIs logic when they laid out the dash on the A series of buses.

[luvrbus]

I would go with the Triseaal or Scotseal the Triseal seems to work better with the old hubs that are a little out of round from seals being installed over the years JMO

[eagle19952]

At the 12 oclock position inside the bearing cavity of the hub, at the top of the ID arc, and with a preload adj nut finger tight, and a flat, at the 12 oclock position, (here note, the sharp end of the chisel si the wrong end) insert at a right angle the hammer end of a chisel ( I prefer square vs hex), at also the twelve oclock position. as you rotate the wheel (drum,hub,and tire) the chisel will wedge causing the rotating tire to jamb at approximately the 1 oclock position. This will "tighten,torque the inner WB nut.
At the end (tightened torque point) remove (reverse wheel), and observe the individual rollers, they all should rotate at the same speed and move from the bottom to the top and turn in unison/synch...

As a field service mechanic, imagine all of the wheel bearing socket sizes one would need to carry to  adj. 12 or more different axle bearings and the amount of space they would consume on a field service truck where 3-4 chisels each a different thickness would accomplish the same task.

1000+ axle bearings have been adj this way, never lost one. good luck.

Clear as mud...

[chessie4905]

   Check the spindle area where the bearing rides for wear on the lower side. It could have a wear spot causing the hub to shift, even though bearing is correctly adjusted. I ran into this several years ago on a previous coach. Finally found it after a few seal replacements. BTW, fwiw, I STILL recommend grease packed bearings for these older coaches because of the mess and cost plus labor. Some will argue the point but my opinion won't be changed. 

[Brian Diehl]

At the 12 oclock position inside the bearing cavity of the hub, at the top of the ID arc, and with a preload adj nut finger tight, and a flat, at the 12 oclock position, (here note, the sharp end of the chisel si the wrong end) insert at a right angle the hammer end of a chisel ( I prefer square vs hex), at also the twelve oclock position. as you rotate the wheel (drum,hub,and tire) the chisel will wedge causing the rotating tire to jamb at approximately the 1 oclock position. This will "tighten,torque the inner WB nut.
At the end (tightened torque point) remove (reverse wheel), and observe the individual rollers, they all should rotate at the same speed and move from the bottom to the top and turn in unison/synch...

As a field service mechanic, imagine all of the wheel bearing socket sizes one would need to carry to  adj. 12 or more different axle bearings and the amount of space they would consume on a field service truck where 3-4 chisels each a different thickness would accomplish the same task.

1000+ axle bearings have been adj this way, never lost one. good luck.

Clear as mud...

Thanks Donald.  That makes perfect sense to me now.  For me, the hardest part of getting the seal on is getting the rubber part of the seal to slip on the wear ring on the spindle.  Once the seal is bottomed out the adjusting goes much easier.  Getting to that point always makes me nervous since it seams to take so much torque on the axle nut to get it on.

[Brian Diehl]

   Check the spindle area where the bearing rides for wear on the lower side. It could have a wear spot causing the hub to shift, even though bearing is correctly adjusted. I ran into this several years ago on a previous coach. Finally found it after a few seal replacements. BTW, fwiw, I STILL recommend grease packed bearings for these older coaches because of the mess and cost plus labor. Some will argue the point but my opinion won't be changed. 

Cheesie, was the wear spot really obvious or did it take special measuring calipers to find it?

Also, what is the procedure to convert over to grease hubs?  What are the arguments for and against it?

[Brian Diehl]

I would go with the Triseaal or Scotseal the Triseal seems to work better with the old hubs that are a little out of round from seals being installed over the years JMO

Is this the specific model you are recommending?

http://triseal.vayanet.net/Products/data/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4

[Brian Diehl]

Anybody know the Scotseal (or other) number for the MCI hubs?  The MCI part number is 15r-2-9.

Thanks.

[chessie4905]

   It's obvious, you can feel the ridge with your finger tip. put a little lube on the id of seal and od of rub ring and rotate slghtly as you slide hub over it. I always put hubs on without tires mounted, front or rear. Some leave tire/s mounted to hub

[eagle19952]

Thanks Donald.
.  Getting to that point always makes me nervous since it seams to take so much torque on the axle nut to get it on.

there in lies (part of) your  problem...seating the seal with the nut never worked for me....a hoist, a tire dolly, greased concrete, greased plywood or a "drum harness" or two men cradling the hub with a strap....and putting the hub with inner bearing "home" verified with the outer bearing is a better way to assure the integrity of the seal...
YMMV JMW IMHO etc....

Are you sure that the seal you are installing is compatible with the speedi (wear) sleeve... it would not be the standard MCI part number....a seal for a wear sleeve is proprietary to the wear sleeve...
And some would argue that the seal be put in dry... I would be one of them. Unless the maker specified lubing...

Last...(maybe... ) if the wear sleeve is not installed properly..distorted...all bets are off. and none of the above will help....

[Brian Diehl]

Well, we all made it home safe and without major drama. 

Strange thing - the wheel seal quit leaking once the oil level in the hub got down to the level of the clear plastic.  I have no idea why - yet.  Tearing it apart again is towards the top of my list.

Unfortunately, the top thing on the list is now the fuel tank.  I discovered the dreaded fuel leak when I got home.  I'm going to have to pull the tank and find the leak.  Yikes - what do I do with almost 120 gallons of diesel?  Gotta talk to the neighbor and see if he has an old tank big enough to hold that much diesel.  Then - gotta pull the tank.  Is it hard to get out?

Finally, a final screen shot of the stats for my trip:

2,824.5 miles traveled and 306.8 gallons of fuel consumed for a trip average of 9.2 mpg.  Other than the wheel seal everything worked properly as it was supposed to.  So, in general a successful trip.

[Oonrahnjay]

... Other than the wheel seal everything worked properly as it was supposed to.  So, in general a successful trip. 

     Nice - congrats!  (Sorry about the fuel leak - yeah, a big, messy job.)