Sheppard steering for my 4106

Darkspeed · December 23, 2014, 05:22:20 PM

Thank you OneLapper!

Did you have to change the length of the steering prop shaft between the miter box and the steering box?

OneLapper · December 23, 2014, 08:33:12 PM

Quote from: Darkspeed on December 23, 2014, 05:22:20 PM
Thank you OneLapper!

Did you have to change the length of the steering prop shaft between the miter box and the steering box?

Yes, the prop shaft needed to be shortened by approx 3/4".

Barn Owl · December 24, 2014, 07:59:20 PM

QuoteI'll say that the Vickers will groan for an hour until the oil is hot. In the winter it's loud.

Mine is very loud cold, my father's bus is quiet. Not sure why.

Darkspeed · December 29, 2014, 06:25:25 PM

Well after talking to Ken about the inability to get the play out of a Sheppard I may look at doing a custom mount for a Ross/TRW HFB70 series gear.

The Ross/TRW gear that was used in the in the MCI is apparently hard to come by but making a custom mount for a more common HFB70 series should not be that big of a deal and this would give me a gear with lash adjustment.

If I was super ambitious I would replace the miter box with the power steering gear and run a drag link back to the steering knuckle but im not sure it would be worth the effort.

luvrbus · December 30, 2014, 06:17:49 AM

Kirby 4104 used the Ross from a MCI on his bus

Hard Headed Ken · December 30, 2014, 06:32:14 AM

I mentioned that gear to Todd. As far as I know they were only used on the MCI 102A2 and they are hard to find. If anyone knows where one can be found send Todd a PM.

Thanks,
Ken

Darkspeed · December 30, 2014, 08:37:14 AM

Thanks Ken!

Im starting to think more about the idea of a frame mounted gear as it would simplify a lot of the system.
It would require some reinforcement but it would allow me to use a nice flaming river tilt steering column.
It may require custom bending a draglink between the pitman and the knuckle.

I am going to start doing some measuring.

Barn Owl · December 30, 2014, 10:53:45 AM

If you are ever through Roanoke I can show you a 4106 with 1" play in the wheel. It takes effort and money to dial it in like that but I would think it would still be easier and cheaper than re-engineering something new.

Barn Owl · December 30, 2014, 10:56:31 AM

Quotetilt steering column

That would be very nice to have. Can that be done with the OEM column?

luvrbus · December 30, 2014, 11:41:32 AM

A frame mount is the way to go JMO

Darkspeed · December 30, 2014, 01:31:49 PM

Well you could replace the miter box with a frame mounted power steering gear and retain the factory steering column or use a more modern tilt / telescoping steering column. It would be more comfortable to move from a giant steering wheel at a fixed angle to a modern heated steering wheel with an adjustable angle.

This would remove the need for the axle mounted gear / cylinder, miter box , steering drive shaft, u joints, etc...

Mounting the new frame mounted gear would require reinforcing the structure of the spare tire compartment which is easy to do.

The 4106 has an empty steering drag link receiver on the drivers side but it faces 180 deg rather than 90 deg so I would need to fabricate a 90 deg mounting point for a tapered ball joint or rod end. This would be the most difficult part but is doable.

Darkspeed · December 30, 2014, 01:54:06 PM

If i was going to convert the factory column to tilt I would cut the column at the bend and weld in one of these > http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/product.php?productid=1844&cat=557&page=1

Hard Headed Ken · December 30, 2014, 06:22:48 PM

Todd,
This is the critical area that needs gussets. It was weak from the factory. With a frame mount gear you'll be adding many times the force to that bulkhead it was designed for. Add large triangle gussets to both sides of the beam and to both sides of the coach. Yeah, I know the picture is from a 4104, it's all I could find. Clifford is correct, a frame mount gear will drive much better.

Ken

Looking at the picture it probably would be a good idea to add gussets to the rear of the beam and 2nd bulkhead also

Darkspeed · December 30, 2014, 08:12:37 PM

Thanks Ken!

As part of my rebuild on this bus I am adding some driver / copilot protection in the form of some moly tubing in the area where the dash was and this is tied back to the two steel box sections above the front suspension and the steel ribs above the front roof. My goal was to have a better chance of surviving a front end collision. After removing the 4106 dash / rivets to do some bodywork I was amazed that the only protection was an aluminum doubler plate on the drivers side. The good news is I can stub down and have a rock solid mount for a frame mounted gear.

Looking at the top of the drivers side steering knuckle there is a tapered blank (no arm) that is only being used to mount the service brake hanger. Im thinking of making a replacement with a 90deg arm to mount the drag link to. Because the drag link will be so long (front of bus to centerline of front axel) it looks like there will not be a lot of change in length when the suspension moves through its arc.

Hard Headed Ken · December 31, 2014, 07:32:55 AM

Todd,
It seems you know what needs to done. I'm sure you'll end up with a very nice driving coach. You probably know this already but add some caster for a better return to center. I don't remember for sure but I think a total of 4 degrees positive. Hopefully someone else can confirm that number.

Ken