I got stump?? What would be the right way to wire this cook top??

[eagle19952]

according to this....there is no white wire....so there is no need for one.... but you do need a two pole 20 amp breaker....two twenty amp single pole breakers won't do it. even if they are illegally tied.


http://documents.designerappliances.com/CR1115-2110-2220-3240manlrvsd082611-CR2220-ASSY-CR2220.pdf

[luvrbus]

That looks like the model with the residual heat lamp built in ?

[eagle19952]

That looks like the model with the residual heat lamp built in ?

it does have the residual lamp but the install instruction says that there is no white provided in the 220v model just on the 110v

[luvrbus]

Just wire it like a 4 wire dryer you are seeing a lot of the 4 wire 220v stuff now on the market

[johnjem]

OK guys I will repost the wires I have,,,,   Newmar panel  front burner breaker and a rear burner breaker,,both have legs going to stove so I have at the bus wiring red,black,white, copper is grounded to junction box (metal).   on the stove part of the wiring I have red,black and green???   green wire goes to the copper, red goes to red ,black goes to black,and I should cap the white>>> Right

[johnjem]

IT also says do not ground appliance with neutral house supply wire!!  sorry fixed!!!

[bevans6]

Natural, or neutral?

Brian

[digesterman]

Edit, came on a bit strong.  In the middle of replacing an electrical panel in one of my buildings that was wired all over with independant fuses when they should have been ganged.  Going to cost me a lot to make it safe.  Do as you please now that you know the right way to do it.

Brian

Actually there are a few things that need to put forcibly, and doing wiring correctly is one of them. Don't apologize there are too many people that really don't understand how some things work but that doesn't stop them from being the final word.

I have found your posts to be very useful, keep it up.

[bevans6]

Lee, thank you.

Here is one thing I hate about codes, and the NEC in particular.   The terminology sucks.  I have no problems remembering live neutral and ground, but I have a huge problem remembering Line, Grounded and Grounding conductors.  I always have to look up the difference between grounded and grounding, I flat out cannot remember that.  With that said...

JohnJem, in case your comment is a question, here is the answer.  Old installations of appliances like cooktops and dryers that used 240VAC may have been wired in a way that is no longer compliant with current code.  Since any time you make any upgrade of anything in your electrical system you have to do that upgrade according to current code, they remind you that you should not use neutral to ground your appliance.  Why?  Because at one point you were allowed to kind of mix neutral and ground in such appliances since at a surface level they do the same thing - now you should take the opportunity to bring things up to current code.  You have wiring with red, black (L and L), green (grounding conductor) and white (neutral, also known as grounded conductor) so you are good to go.  

The other thing I thought of to remind you is to check that your cable is 12 gauge, since you have 20 amp breakers.

Edit.  I apologize again but I am in a freaking bad mood tonight.  Have you seen the markets?  I am retired, I have no pension and I lost the equivalent of a full years income this week.  I know what goes up comes down and goes back up again, but that just plain out sucks the hind teat.   Do you know why the hind teat is the worst one?  It's the one with the most $#!% on it.  I'm a city boy, I just learned that, and laughed my head off...



Brian

[Jim Eh.]

Two independent breakers are not really an option unless you want to retain an illegal and highly unsafe installation.  It's against every code anywhere, for anything, to have two independent supplies into a single fixture that are not controlled together.  Someone comes along to work on your bus, you're not around, pops the one breaker and gets killed from the other breaker still being hot.  It's really not a good idea.

Edit, came on a bit strong.  In the middle of replacing an electrical panel in one of my buildings that was wired all over with independant fuses when they should have been ganged.  Going to cost me a lot to make it safe.  Do as you please now that you know the right way to do it.

Brian

Wish I had this warning before I worked on an outside plug that had two circuits wired to it with the connector cut between the plugs. Started to pull the damn plug out of the box after I switched off the breaker and double checking the "top" plug was dead and quickly found out the bottom was live!

[eagle19952]

Wish I had this warning before I worked on an outside plug that had two circuits wired to it with the connector cut between the plugs. Started to pull the damn plug out of the box after I switched off the breaker and double checking the "top" plug was dead and quickly found out the bottom was live!

which code allows.... in a 110v outlet... go figger.
each duplex outlet in a house could be on a single breaker but the service panel probably would be bigger than a barn door.
and they would have to have breakers sized accordingly...do they even make 5 amp...

[bevans6]

Breakers are sized to protect the wiring in the branch circuit, which I think must be 14 gauge minimum by code, so all the breakers would be 15 amp anyway.  Last time I wired a kitchen I had to install special 14 gauge 3 conductor wire, with a special colour, and install ganged breakers so that the upper outlet in each box was separate from the lower outlet, and each box was fed by a single ganged breaker.  Now I think the rule is 20 amp breakers and 12 gauge wire.  I recall when I was first learning about this stuff you had to have a "kitchen table" outlet that was wired separately so you could plug in a clock...


Brian

[eagle19952]

single pole.... you cannot use two of these



double pole.... you need one like this

[Oonrahnjay]

single pole.... you cannot use two of these



double pole.... you need one like this

     I ran into a similar thing yesterday (in the shop, not the bus).  I had to replace an old water heater, it had a 120 feed; the next breaker (also a single pole) was empty.  The wiring (10 ga/4) to the old water heater had the red wire capped with wire nuts on both ends (dunno why a 4 conductor wire was used there).
     Like this situation, the new water heater was 240V.  I said "oh, no, this is going to be bad, I'm going to have to rewire" then I realized that since the neutral/ white and ground/ green were already connected to their respective bus bars, all I had to do was remove the 120 single pole and the next empty single pole breaker and put in a double pole; the black wire I connected to the upper side of the double pole breaker and the red to the lower.   There was no white wire on the 240V (new) water heater, so I capped it with a wire nut at the heater connection box.
     I don't know how much the double pole breaker cost -- as I was about to go buy one, I found one (new, still in the wrapper) in the supply drawer.

Quick question.  Since the neutral wire isn't needed and it's capped off at the heater end, should I disconnect the other end at the bus in the box?  I just assumed that it wouldn't do anything and couldn't cause any problem but now I wonder.

[luvrbus]

 The AC 240 volts units don't have a white wire either but a dryer and a cook top do why ? Bruce I just install a new water heater also double elements 2 wires also with a green ground