1994 MCI 102D3 vs. 1999 Prevost La Mirage XL (Can't decide)

michael11 · November 08, 2013, 12:18:00 PM

Just wondering if anyone might have some input..

1994 MCI 102D3 powered by a 3176 CAT, with a 7 speed manual. 800,000 miles! Seems to run good, Alcoa wheels

Or a 1999 Prevost. Series 60, with an Allison B-500 (hub says about half the miles as the MCI, not sure if it is accurate yet..)

Both seem to run and drive well. (The Prevost will cost $2000-$3000 more to purchase)

A few thoughts... I spoke with a mechanic that says the cat is getting to where it may need a rebuild, but the 7 speed is cheap to repair and/or buy. The Allison is very expensive if it needs to be replaced.. Both will come with a valid E-Test (smog) however I am concerned with the cat failing it within the next few years....

Here is a link to the ebay ad for the Prevost:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111207558423?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1431.l2648

I am going to start losing sleep over this...lol.. So any input would be great! Thanks in advance.. (BTW-I am in Ontario Canada)

Seangie · November 08, 2013, 12:31:32 PM

Mike - Thats a pretty easy one - Apples to Apples the Prevost wins hands down. I would spend some money up front getting a good "bus" mechanic to look at the whole bus from front to back and give it a good drive for an hour or two before slumping down a wad of cash. If the owner wont let you take it for a nice long drive there may be something wrong with it (offer to pay for fuel of course).

Thats my pick of the day

-Sean

luvrbus · November 08, 2013, 01:15:35 PM

The MCI D does have a few rust problem areas the 3176 is today's Cat C-10 a smaller engine compared to the 60 series

Now the 99 Prevost is not with sin from 1997 to 2000 they had the worst front end suspension (IFS) of any bus on the road do your home work and be sure the front end has been upgraded ask for proof if not it will be big $$$$$ and check if the B500 has not been replaced at 500,000 miles it is at the end of it's life that will cost another 10 grand

good luck on your choice

michael11 · November 08, 2013, 01:30:46 PM

Thanks guys...See I am all over the place..

The D series. One owner, As I understand it, one week spot on the D's is where the front suspension meets the frame. This had a bit of an issue, but has been welded. So it is good to go. The luggage bays all look pretty good! There is a bit on the flat panel (where a bus company would put their name) no holes though....

The luggage bays on the Prevost, will need a bit of love... (patches)

They both have good and bad....!

That being said.. The MCI is about $2500 less money...!

wg4t50 · November 08, 2013, 02:09:05 PM

I am with Sean, the Prevost with the 60 DDC and the Allison got my vote.
Dave M

TomC · November 08, 2013, 02:18:31 PM

Run as fast as you can away from the 3176 Caterpillar! That engine has an aluminum spacer block between the cast iron head and the cast iron block. If you overheat once, all hell breaks loose in trying to realign everything. That engine almost bankrupted Caterpillar. That is why Cat brought out the C10 and C12-full cast iron head and block without the aluminum spacer block.

Series 60 will be the better choice. Both buses are good. Good Luck, TomC

michael11 · November 08, 2013, 02:31:28 PM

Quote from: TomC on November 08, 2013, 02:18:31 PM
Run as fast as you can away from the 3176 Caterpillar! That engine has an aluminum spacer block between the cast iron head and the cast iron block. If you overheat once, all hell breaks loose in trying to realign everything. That engine almost bankrupted Caterpillar. That is why Cat brought out the C10 and C12-full cast iron head and block without the aluminum spacer block.

Series 60 will be the better choice. Both buses are good. Good Luck, TomC

I have read that, but it seems that the later 3176's (just before the c10 and c12) were decent? They changed the design of the engine block. Went from 2 piece to one piece or something like that? Not too sure.. The company that has the coach, has had it since new, so all records are there. This was a good engine for them they say. Also, decent on fuel.

That being said, I would probably still be more comfortable getting into a S60...

michael11 · November 08, 2013, 02:45:34 PM

Here is an action shot of the very Prevost of which we speak...

Oonrahnjay · November 08, 2013, 03:03:02 PM

Oooh, so you're like up there in Caahnadaah, eh???

luvrbus · November 08, 2013, 03:13:36 PM

Is that the 99 model listed on Kijiji ?

michael11 · November 08, 2013, 06:24:16 PM

Quote from: luvrbus on November 08, 2013, 03:13:36 PM
Is that the 99 model listed on Kijiji ?

That is the one. Go Transit #1613

So If I get the Prevost.... Who wants to help "un wrap" it ??

RJ · November 08, 2013, 06:51:55 PM

Michael -

My vote is for the Prevost.

But first. . .

What do you want to DO with the bus? Please elaborate for us so that we can give you some intelligent suggestions.

FWIW & HTH. . .

twostick · November 08, 2013, 07:25:03 PM

Toromont Cat had to put on a third shift just to keep up with exploding 3176's. Junk does not come even close to describing them.

Kevin

michael11 · November 08, 2013, 07:36:35 PM

I am looking to made a basic home built conversion. I will be the only driver. I have wanted one of these for as long as I can remember...

As far as the CAT 3176, like I said I thought the later ones were better, due to an engine block re design... The Prevost is looking better and better..

John316 · November 08, 2013, 07:48:24 PM

Michael,

Welcome to you over here. Lot's of good info for sure. I replied to you on the MCI board also....http://mcibustalk.com/bbs/index.php?topic=788.0

As I have said before, make sure you count the cost, but don't be scared of buses. I do not know enough about Prevost to say one way or the other. However, I would look long and hard at a Prevost.

The front suspension can be an issue. However, a way bigger issue is where the rear axles are. Often you will not be able to see the rust under there. Where it really matters is all covered up. Some D's have a stainless steel frame, taking care of that issue (but I have yet to see a stainless frame D, fwiw). You can plan on the frame above the air bags needing to be fixed, which isn't bad ($5,500 down here). The part you really need to be concerned about is the main Ibeams on the frame that rust out. Terminal rust at that point.

I said this on the other board, but if there is major rust on the exposed tag axle support, I would be very careful.

As Clifford said, the B500 is expensive, if you have to replace it.

That being said, I have no idea what the weak points are in the Prevost. Somebody here might know. That being said, we were the first on the board (that I know of) to find out about the major hidden rust issues with the D.

Enjoy, whatever you do.

John