GM 5307 - the end in Toronto

[buswarrior]

It is with some melancholy, my good busnut friends, that I share the after-the-fact press release announcing the end of the GM New Looks in revenue service in Toronto.

The convergence of conditions that led to the finest transit coach built to date are not likely to align again.

Only because I drove them, and without power steering in heavy urban transit conditions, and will fondly remember the feel of the road unsurpassed by anything that follows, will I continue to be...

happy coaching!
buswarrior

From: TTC Media Relations
Sent: December 20, 2011 1:08 PM
Subject: News Release - All 170 TTC bus routes now accessible

News Release
December 20, 2011
All 170 TTC bus routes now accessible

The TTC is pleased to announce that as of yesterday, Monday, December 19, with the retirement of the TTC's last old, non-accessible buses, the entire TTC bus network is now fully accessible.

All 170 bus routes are now wheelchair and scooter friendly. The TTC's last few remaining GM "New Look" non-accessible buses – a model that dates back to the 1950s – made their final scheduled run on the 52 Lawrence West route on December 16. They have now been replaced by accessible Orion VII low-floor buses.

The TTC introduced its first accessible 12-metre buses in 1996. Today, the TTC operates a fleet of close to 1,800 accessible buses.

Accessible buses can be identified by blue lights on either side of the front destination sign, and the blue international wheelchair symbol displayed above the front right bumper next to the entrance door. All fully accessible buses include two wheelchair/scooter positions.

With this change, the 52 Lawrence West and 352 Lawrence West Blue Night routes also became bike-rack-equipped, making the entire TTC 12-metre bus fleet bike-racked-equipped. All new TTC buses come equipped with bike racks, which can carry two bicycles at a time.

-30-


Media contact: Mike DeToma, Senior Communications Advisor, 416-981-1900, mike.detoma@ttc.ca

[RJ]

BW -

Will TTC be keeping one of the Fishbowls for the historic fleet, or are they destined to be Molson cans?

[Oonrahnjay]

Will TTC be keeping one of the Fishbowls for the historic fleet, or are they destined to be Molson cans? 

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFAgQZCGs3U

[CrabbyMilton]

That bus is legendary in terms of durability. I grew up riding those here in Milwaukee. Most of the drivers seemed to love them and dreaded the "new" GM RTS (back in the 1980 for us total of 150) when they came in. In 1978 Milwaukee took delivery of 100 FLXIBLE "new look" types as well and while these FLXIBLES and RTS's had a/c, power steering and the more powerful 8V-71 engine, the drivers all seemed to love the old GM fishbowls. In fact the county completly rebuilt the fishbowls that were bought in the late 1960's therby extending their lives well into the 1990's. In fact they even outlived the some of the RTS's and FLXIBLE buses.

[Jeremy]

Sounds like exactly the same story as the Routemaster - rebuilds and modernisation of the mechanical bits saw many of those also in regular use long after it's 'replacements' had come and gone.

Jeremy

[CrabbyMilton]

Well, in the case of Milwaukee, they did a great job rebuildiing them. It was like a brand new bus since they even added power steering. But the downside is that they kept the same underpowered engine when they should have put in a 8v-71/V730 combo as long as they were going to all that trouble. But they did not have a/c so I guess that was the best option at the time.
With all of the ADA and money from the feds to replace buses about every 12-15 years, the old beloved fish bowl just didn't have a place in the market. Just imagine how they would have been in their original contruction but with modern powertrain combinations and other modern comforts.

[buswarrior]

Unfortunately, there is no historical fleet here in Toronto.

The only things we still have on the books is one circa 1921 "Peter Witt" streetcar, and two circa 1951 "President's Conference Committee" streetcars.

Much of the TTC's rail history is housed in an independent operating museum west of the city near Rockwood.

You'll find the Halton County Radial Railway at this link:  http://www.hcry.org/

Up until last Friday, the regular fleet WAS the historical fleet?

Part of the problem here is that we run the buses far more years than in the US, and with the high use of salt in winter, they are pretty much done. It was not unusual for us to run a bus for 18 years. The last of those GM's were from our purchases in the early 1980's, as the New Look line came to an end. They went through a comprehensive heavy rebuild at least once, some twice, since the rebuilds did not use much in the way of isolation between the steel bulkheads and the aluminum skins, rotting through again earlier than a fresh coach would have. The whole heavy re-build program was considered a temporary measure, in it's official form since David Gunn's time here some 17 years ago, that has ended up continuing until now. Some temporary program, eh? These rebuilds have always taken place, before and after, just not in as formal a program.

And it is all done in-house, I might add, by our own tradespeople. 

The US government program of 12 year funding is what has destroyed bus design. They are bought with "free money" by government bodies, not by a business owner. They are all built to fall apart at 11 years 6 months. Why would you design for longer? How could you and stay in business?

The GM was designed in a day when there was little horsepower, weight was a killer, the bus had to pay its way, both for it's capital outlay, and its operating costs. That is a VERY different market place from today.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[travlinman]

Have any Pics to share???

TM

[Paso One]

The convergence of conditions that led to the finest transit coach built to date are not likely to align again.

Only because I drove them, and without power steering in heavy urban transit conditions, and will fondly remember the feel of the road unsurpassed by anything that follows, will I continue to be...

Aw Gee BW thats the nicest thing you have said about my bus thanks


Saskatoon and Edmonton still have some in revenue service

[lostagain]

I still see them in Calgary too.

JC