Week 3, 7f, wind N @ 10, snowing.

[challenger440]

Well it's my third week of living in Magic Bus.  Temperatures have been dropping steadily  since moving in. I've been through warm sunny days, rain, cold, cold with snow and very cold (3f).  So far so good. 
   I installed a Rinnai furnace in the living room area for heat.  35K BTU.   Furnace is vented through the side wall of the bus, seems to work well.  No CO and keeps the living area  warm as long as your willing to pump in the propane. So far I'm using about 2 gallons of propane a day on average.  So at this rate about $200 per month for propane, give or take.   I'm also using a 750 watt (using at least 749 watts, plus or minus the amount of work the fan is doing) electric heater on a timer for the bed room.  I run it at night to keep the icicles from forming on the ceiling of the bedroom.

  I haven't filled the water tank as it seems like it would be more work than its worth to keep it from freezing.  I'm living at the ranch here in MT so I can use the parents shower and steal water as needed.  I have  a regular toilet installed in the bus and I'm just pouring water in it's tank to make it functional.  Black tank is 60 gallons so I'm figuring at least 3 or 4 weeks before it is full and (because it will be frozen) unusable. 
   Before that happens I hope to be in sunny Arizona, Cali, or anywhere warm.  Reason I'm still in temperate MT is that I've still got some contract work to get done.

So that's my story and I'm sticking to it.  And strange as it may seem, I'm really enjoying living in my new home, Magic Bus.

John M.

[Stormcloud]

Im thinking that the black tank may end up with a crack in it. And that would be kind of ....ummm....messy...to repair should that happen. Any chance you can add some antifreeze to it??

Maybe see you in Arizona in January. Going to the Q for the rally?

Mark

[buswarrior]

Salt the black tank and call it done.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[challenger440]

Good point on the tank.  I won't let it get full.  Plus i dumped in a few gallons of rv antifreeze.  Should  keep it from freezing solid.  My thought is that it should expand upwards (path of least resistance) when it does freeze.  I've heard about the salt idea, any thoughts on how much?
 Hoping to make it to Q, sounds like a great experience.  With luck, see you there.   jm

[Stormcloud]

Salt is cheap. IceMelt salt may be the best; likely a bag ( or so) would do the trick. But with the RV antifreeze in the tank it shouldnt freeze solid. Sure would hate to be wrong and have a major catastrophe for the price of a bag of IceMelter.

We hope to be at the Q a couple of days ahead of the rally start; to get a good spot near the 'action'. We'll watch for you.  I'll be the Canadian in shorts and T-shirt...lol.

Mark

[luvrbus]

You guys don't want to come to Az 9 pm it is 70 degrees no wind no humidity few clouds because we may get a shower Sat tuff huh

good luck

[challenger440]

luvrbus, thanks for the warning!  70 is way to hot.  Actually it was in the 80's here about a month ago, but that is only a distant memory at this point. 

Mark, sounds like a MC 7 reunion to me.  Mine was originally in service out of Phoenix.  Kinda like coming home.
jm

[bobofthenorth]

Its been chilly here west of San Antonio too - barely got to 70 today and nights are low 50s.  So cold in fact that we've had to go sit in the hot tub every night.

[gcyeaw]

Be warned about using the chemical ice melting stuff in your holding tanks.

Last year I did an experiment by adding some of the chemical ice melting stuff to some pink stuff in a plastic bottle. It got very hot, hot enough to make me take it outside away from the house. The next morning it was a solid brick, not frozen, just a brick of the chemical pellets and pink stuff. I would fear the heat would damage your dump valves, and the brick would plug up the whole dump system.  Rock salt seems to be the antifreeze of choice, but that is corrosive as well. Any metal components in your dump valves or system will be compromised.

[artvonne]

  Its been bitter colder here, highs only into the mid 60s. BRRRRRRR.

[Stormcloud]

60s?? Oh, brrrrrrr!!!!!    This morning it is, as I type, -18F outside my window ( thats -27C ) with wind chill of -36F ( -38C).
I think today I may have to put on some thermal longjohns.

I had never heard of icemelt reacting with RV antifreeze, but I'm certainly no chemist. I used RV antifreeze in my workshop in-floor heating system for my first workshop. I had to replace the heating element after the first year. The 'pink' colour had turned 'gold', and the heating element had turned from brown to purple. Hmm. I replaced the element, and had no more problems for the next 7 years. Not sure if the failure of the element was due to a chemical reaction, or it just failed.

I have a sidewalk at home that sustained substantial damage from ice-melt. One of these days I will replace it.....but not today!

Mark

[thomasinnv]

In Quartzsite here it was a chilly 58 deg this morning. it's only supposed to be 71 today. I just don't know what ever I will do. Decisions.

[buswarrior]

I'd be very concerned about the dilution of the RV anti-freeze, and the money to maintain freeze protection can be spent on other bus things.

You can count on a burst tank or line if you assume the freeze will just push up into the open space in the tank.
Since the beginning of time, the freeze heave does not go up, it goes out in all directions.

The commercial carriers would send us out with a gallon jug with a cut out in the top, with 1/2 to 3/4 full of salt.

Largely it depends on how much liquid you will be protecting. It takes more salt to protect 100 gallons than 35.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[challenger440]

Good info on the freezing everyone.  I think I'll dump 5 lbs in the tank.  The only possible salt damage I can imagine  would be to the drain valve and if that gets goofed up its easy to change.   

3f above zero last night.  Helena has around 6 inches of snow, I've got a 3 maybe 4 here.  jm

[Just Dallas]

Ya gotta remember, the poop chute doesn't freeze at 0°C or 32°F. It will probably be a bit lower.
We were in Oklahoma at -13°F and our 70 gallon poop tank never froze, although it does make a great Icee! Putting a couple of 60 watt light bulbs and a muffin fan in the bay kept everything flowing normally. No Exlax needed.
Another method we tried was using a hot air vent from the furnace into the bay. It made for nice toasty feet in that area until the furnace died of old age. Also no problems with tank constipation.

I'm not a big fan of putting anything in the black tank because of possible problems down the road for either the tank and associated plumbing or the septic system that it's going into.

The only thing I've ever added to a black tank is some Rid-ex to help build the little buggers that turn the poop into slush, and I only did that for my new tank and once when I had to clean the tank out completely to fix a fitting.

Do it your way, but please think about the consequences of your actions.
I don't know that salt or other chemicals will hurt the system you dump into, but common sense tells me it can't be good.