lawsuit - Walker

[EL4500]

Recently some pictures were posted by someone claiming to be a bus kit manufacturer i.e. Premier Conversion Kits.  The pictures were of a Sam Walker abortion currently involved in a lawsuit due to the poor quality of construction of the entire coach.  If this person truly built the cabinets, why did they not take the pictures during construction?  Instead they photographed it after it was taken away from Walker, and may I add without the owner's permission.  The owner is currently involved in a lawsuit with Walker trying to recover his almost total loss.  The person's dreams were stolen and dashed to the rocks by Walker and others involved with him.  One of the parasites, Walker will soon be in jail.  It seems to me that you are trying to take his place.  You are starting out just as any crook would by sneaking in and photographing something that you don't own.  I've spoken with parties involved where it is at now and the owner who at this point feels as if he is having salt rubbed into his wound.  No one has given you permission to use any of his bus photos!  As far as the workmanship, I've found poor fit, cracks in the Formica at the radiuses, misalignment, and very little attention to detail.  Also, the pulls fall out of the doors.  Plus to tow it down the road, notice I say tow because it does not run and drive, you have to tape the doors and drawers shut.  I find, as in all of the coach to be very poorly done.  And if you were truly involved in the building of this coach hang your head low in shame.  Also, the kit idea is another predator's con.  You cannot build a kit for buses, because the measurements from one bus to the next are different.  If you build a wall for one place in the bus then try to move it 12 inches forward or back it will not fit.  No two buses are exactly alike.  I find this concept no more than a USED CON.

[premierconversion]

I really dont have any comment for that, I will talk to the owners as soon as possible. To my knowledge permission was secured while it was still in Pennsylvania at the towing facility. But again this is my second hand knowledge.

[gumpy]

I really dont have any comment for that, I will talk to the owners as soon as possible. To my knowledge permission was secured while it was still in Pennsylvania at the towing facility. But again this is my second hand knowledge.

Well, maybe you'd like to comment on the information in the previous thread, where you indicated you were building interiors for Walker and never got paid in one post, and then indicated you were actually a website company that was contracted by Premier.

Or, maybe you'd like to comment on the indication that you had no affiliation with Walker, but yet your email address on your url registration puts you at walkercoach.com?

I gotta say, if you're sure weaving an interesting web of something here.

Any chance you'd like to come clean and tell us what the whole story is? Who are you? Who's behind Premier Conversion Kits and what are the real connections between you all and Sam Walker, either now or in the past?

I suspect if you're not willing to provide some explainations, you're not going to get very far with the bus crowd that frequents this board.

[EL4500]

I have spoke to the very upset owner this morning when he informed me of the photos being on the internet.  He was sure the photos were taken after it left Walker, because the tape was applied to the cabinets after it left to keep them from doing further damage i.e. swinging open and closed in motion.  He was indeed contacted, but he declined to give permission due to the nature of the lawsuit.  He feels he's been victimized enough.  It's a very cruel thing to have to be continually reminded publicly of this injustice.  Also, he would like the stolen images removed for your site at once!

[H3Jim]

As Gumpy said, "I suspect if you're not willing to provide some explanations, you're not going to get very far with the bus crowd that frequents this board."

Additionally, anyone that is converting a bus. or plans to, will probably visit this site, so I submit that complete explanations to the readers of this board should probably be part of your business plan.

[premierconversion]

Ok fine

The truth is, I highly recommended against trying this endevour becuase the community would be to specitacle of Walker Coach, I knew how close it was, and that many people would get cautious. I also knew that using pictures from the bus in question would be noticed. However, he did have permission, i do believe that. I did design work for walker coach, thats how I'm connected to it. I redesigned there website with the more editorial magazine layout.

The owners are contacting the owner of that bus to find out why he would make that statement. I dont know what else to tell you guys, I also don't know how I can prove anything to you.

Thankfully you guys are proving me right but for the wrong reasons.

This company has no input nor connection with Sam Walker, To be honest the company has more harsh words for him then Ive seen on this forum. Yes he's used my services and premierconversion's services. debts still waiting of coarse. I was being cautious with wording becuase I did not want that known, as it only adds to the tension. But just becuase we were vendors and got pulled into his speel does not mean we operate like Walker Coach.

[gumpy]

... I did design work for walker coach, thats how I'm connected to it. I redesigned there website with the more editorial magazine layout.

So, are you the one responsible for posting the photos of buses that didn't exist (e.g. the whole line of buses sitting out front that were the same bus all cut and pasted together) on Walker's site? Or how about the photos lifted from other websites? Or maybe the photos of the non existant 35 foot conversions that were frequently listed on ebay that were obviously faked?

Seems like there's been a lot of artistic license going on with the Walker website over the years. I can see why you didn't want to admit to any involvement. Unfortunately, it seems you can't always hide from the truth.

Do you see why even the hint of affiliation with Sam Walker on this board will get you nowhere?

And then you come on here with what can arguably be construed as a blatant advertisement, provide conflicting information about your affiliations and motives, and and now there's the possibility you don't really have permission to post the photos you're currently displaying on your "customer's" website?

Do you see why we don't think you're giving us the whole story here?

I really don't know what you expected.

[premierconversion]

No was responsible for only the part I mentioned. Redesigning the site layout.

I KNOW exactly what the hint of Walker Coach will do......

Do you understand why I avoided it ! ?

[kyle4501]

premierconversion,
Do you take us bus nuts as a bunch of simpletons who can't tell crap from crapola?

If you want to know the truth about us bus nuts, you should attend a rally. (Or at the very least spend some time reading this board to see how we are!) There you will see first hand that there is very little we wouldn't do to help a fellow bus nut.

There is a very strong bond here that we do not take lightly & if a vendor is caught trying to intentionally defraud a fellow bus nut, the word will spread very fast to save others that misfortune.

By the same, if a vendor is good & proves to be trustworthy, that too will be spread.

IF your client is trustworthy & has a worthwile product & will provide good service, they will be more than welcomed by the bus nuts.

But know this, we bus nuts will continue to look out for each other! We will expose deciet as soon as we find it.

All we are asking for is the truth. You are hiding/ omiting facts & this is killing your credibility.

The fact that you were connected with sam walker should have been explained up front so you could start out on the right foot in establishing the difference between you & sam walker. However, you tried deciet by omission. That put you in the same class as sam & is why you are catching heat now.


Please, step up or step out.

Just my opinion...

[premierconversion]

ok but in the same note, you do not introduce yourself to someone by saying.. Hi my name is John, my mom was an axe murderer..  Give me some slack here guys, I know how bad the Walker name is.. I read through many bulletin boards just researching it. Try to understand that I simply did not want to start out with such a horrible note. Thats all.

This is a good company founded by good people who want to deliver a product, not have you send money endlessly or send deposits, give you time frames and then forget them.. Ive read much of it. and there are stories I could tell you that would bring back tales from the crypt.

But the whole point is, its an entirely seperate company, and I just wanted them to have the best chance at being viewed by who they are and what they have to offer... and this all goes back to one thing.... I asked for help! I did, to help build a good site for them. Its still majorly in development, by me asking for help i got so much bad attention for it.

I really didnt come on here to advertise I wanted experienced direction, the type you guys have. I'm sorry it did not get taken that way.

[premierconversion]

oh and Ill be honest with you, I dont even like bus conversions I prefer Yachts but only becuase there is less driving involved and its not the same rolling down your window during a rainstorm as it is ocean water splashing off you.

[H3Jim]

It still could get taken in the spirit in which you say if you now do a full disclosure.  Names, dates, agreements, contracts,  current financial positions.  or even some current legit customers.  All of it.  Probably more detail than the current owners want to go into, but if you are looking for a good name, that's precisely what you'll have to do.

We as a group are really good people, but as Kyle says, we are not stupid, and we do not take kindly to people like Walker hurting us or our friends. In fact, we are rather fierce.

[premierconversion]

Ill respond to that quickly with this. You know that I can not disclose any of that without authorization which I may be able to get, but atleast ask for things reasonable. Financial position? would you mind telling me how much money you have in your bank?  Guys Im the DESIGNER, would any of your vendors be able to give out your information like that? in a few days ill have the contact page up and just call them. ask, these questions. I have no clue and to be honest I DONT want to know that information.

I just wanted opinions on the site.

so far, thats the only thing I have NOT gotten.

I mean this with respect but your asking the wrong person here about the wrong topics. I understand your position and why it is your on edge, but try to remember what my job is.

[H3Jim]

I want to know the financial strength of anyone I do significant business with - its really a fair question.  You may just be the messenger, but you are the messenger and I think I am representing fairly just what the owners of your business would have to do at this juncture to gain the respect and trust of the good folks on this board.

I might not tell you my bank balance, but I would surely provide enough information to give you some confidence that I'm not operating on a wing and prayer and trying to suck out the bank accounts of my customers.  The old adage, follow the money will shed a lot of light on any contract.

Do the owners have a lot of cabinet making experience , say they own a cabinet shop business that's been around for 5 or more years,  Maybe some other kind of successful construction business that assures us that they actually understand the details of what it takes to actually convert a bus.  That gives depth to any promises they make.  Or did they just stumble across the remains of Walker's "business" and think they can leverage it into something big by taking deposits and making promises?  Do they own things that shows they have somethng to lose if they make bad faith agreements?  You ge the idea.

Along with full disclosure - nauseating detail - of the entire relationship with Walker

[JerryH]

(revised)

Ok ... so Walker.  Yeah, always interesting reading for sure.

By the by ... to those reading this thread.  Not sure if it was already posted, but the website in question is: http://www.premierconversionkits.com

Allow me to add my $0.02 to this thread.

First, for those who know me ... we are also in the cabinet business.  Would I like to do coaches?  Yeah, it'd be interesting, but I personally wouldn't try a "kit" system.  I just don't see it being a really wonderful and feasible idea.  The concept is kinda neat, but it ends there in MY mind.

Next ... I've also met the individual at the heart of the issue (S.W.).  I've been to Arcadia and seen the carnage down there.  I've met people first-hand who have had "experience" with him and how their dreams have been dashed and monies lost.

To Premier (or is it Ken?):  If you have ANY sense ... you'll remove the photos post-haste on that website (if removed ... cool).  Even if permission were granted from the coach owner, simply being associated with "you know who" is really really bad business practice.  So let's say one doesn't know the history of the party in question and embarks on a business relationship, but then somewhere along the line realizes a mistake was made.  Let's say this person didn't get paid but felt the work performed was of good quality and that they wanted to persue this type of work and promote themselves in this field.  You might sit down and think, "...hell, I lost money on that S.W. bus, but I can get something out of it by using photographs from it..."  Sounds logical on the surface, but it's really not.  The simple association with "him" is enough to raise an eyebrow and create concern, doubt, more questions, etc.  Walk away .... no, Run away!  Distance yourself and start endeavor with a clean fresh sheet of paper.

Ok, moving on.  I read your website.  Here are my thoughts on your "Q & A" page.

Q. Can the average person install a Bus Conversion Kit?
A. Yes with basic carpentry skills are Conversion kits easily installed.
How well does the owner want the kit installed.  "Basic" carpentry skills.  Basic carpentry skills is NOT finish work.  You're talking about scribing and fitting of finished goods.  I think this could be a stretch for not "some" ... but for many.

Q. can we build cabinetry other then what is offered in the bus conversion kits?
A. Yes we can build cabinetry to your specifications.
There is NO substitution for having the bus there on premises for measuring, fitting, scribing, etc.  We all know it's a process of in and out .... then finish it and then re-fit it.  This is NOT a basic kitchen in a home where this IS somewhat more fudge factor.  An inch here and there for scribing is HUGE in a coach.  Isn't it??

Q. What are your shipping methods?
A. Majority will be sent by common carrier. The remaining will be transported by our company. Methods vary based on location.
Ok, common carrier.  Have you gents actually shipped cabinetry via common carrier.  I am not dissing the trucking world, but we represent 5 Mfg's of cabinetry.  Common carrier is NEVER a method of transport we'd ever welcome.  Product is loaded, unloaded, cross-docked, etc., etc.  I've received cabinetry trashed -- even when packaged well.  Common carrier and cabinetry isn't a good mix.   Factory delivery trucks are always best ... the driver has a clue about moving cabinetry, plus the cabinetry generally goes on the truck and directly to the end-user.

So anyway ... you've got an idea and desire to persue a concept/ endeavor.  I don't think anyone would fault you on that.  Execution, thinking it through fully and business associations should be re-evaluated.

Just my $0.02,
Jerry H.