Need educated on Brass Air Line fittings off 4104

[Bill in KS]

The Tee fitting is what I pulled off of my bus.  I went to Parker / Hyspeco Hose company and asked for a 90 degree fitting with compression on one end and pipe on the other to replace the Tee fitting.  When I got home I could not get the new 90" compression threads to start on the compression nut.  I ended up Mic'n the female treads on both and found 31 thousands difference.  The female end on the Tee has a OD of .5235" and the new one has an OD of .555". 

Question: 
Where or what do I need to ask for in the future to get the correct size of threaded female ends on my compression fittings

Thanks for any info or websites that might shed some light

Bill in KS

[JohnEd]

I think you are going to have to find a site with a catalog of brass fittings and hunt and peck till you have it.  Learn the "lingo" of the brass fitting world and you can spout the P/N without ever seeing the item.

Were it me I would head for Jerry's Home Improvement Center.  They have some of the best guys working there.  Go to your areas bestest Home Center and "ask".  They have catalogs....those things that are batteryless and don't plug in.... look thru there and get their advice on which site to use.  Plumbing store?   OOOOOOO! a Truck parts center.

I can't be of further assist but it is out there and available to you.  Often, I have found, I have to add couplers or redicers and can't do it with a single part.  That is where the clerck comes in and he tells you what you "can't" do so your problem then becomes a reality you deal with instead of somthing that has a solution.  Problem vs reality....get it?

Have fun and let us know how you made out.

John

John

[John Broadhead]

The best solution is to take the original part with you when you go shopping. I've worked with brass compression fittings for 30+ years and have found that everybody has a better mousetrap, which makes nearly all of them incompatible, even the ones that are supposed to be interchangable. Unless space is a serious constraint, don't be afraid of building a "plumbers' nightmare" to get what you need. Just be sure that all your joints are leak tight (using whatever sealer is appropriate for the application). The fitting on your original TEE looks to me like an Imperial Eastman (like the ones on your home's sink supply lines) but that may not be correct. Parker makes great, though pricey, fittings but they are not common outside of industrial applications. Good luck and remember, every plumbing job requires at least two trips to the hardware store.

OBTW, the ferrule on a non-flared compression fitting can tell you much about what type it is and what replaces it.

John (another one)

[Oonrahnjay]

(snip) OBTW, the ferrule on a non-flared compression fitting can tell you much about what type it is and what replaces it. 

And there are at least two different angles on flare fittings and it's hard to tell them apart just by looking.  DAMHIK ....

[zubzub]

All the fittings for brake/suspension system are supposed to be DOT.  For all I know all the fittings are supposed to be DOT.  I don't know so all my fittings are  DOT.  They cost about 30%+ than regular hardware store stuff.  I take the bits I need to the truck store and get stuff that fits.
 FWIW I could not get hardware store comp fittings to work with my bus bits.  
On another note....it is often easier to replace with plastic DOT line an old copper line (if you can get at both ends), than to struggle trying to get the comp fittings to realign with slightly longer/shorter replacement "t"s etc...  I have also been told here that one is no longer allowed to splice into an air line as per DOT regs...All this to say I go with DOT stuff 'cause it can't hurt and I don't wanna get hurt, and the plastic line is soooooo easy to work with.

[TedsBUSted]

If Bill in KS is referring to the female thread in the left port of the pictured  "T" fitting, -if it's a compression type seat in there- it would be a compression-screw type which uses a different thread than the top pictured ball-sleeve type.

By the 4104's era, fittings would be SAE standard with no significant dimension variation between manufacturers and mostly still readily available today.

By the posted thread dimensions of .5xx  I'm guessing that we're dealing with at least 3/8" tube, but I'm wondering about the other ports and the specific application and the change Bill in KS is after. With that added information, between us all, we may be able to pinpoint a specific solution.

Ted

[gus]

My 4104 has a mixture of flare and compression fittings all over the place it is a mess!

It also has a bunch of aircraft fittings mixed in with the rest.

DOT did not exist when these jewels were built.

[artvonne]

  There is pipe thread, and there is tubing thread. They are not the same thing no matter how much they may look alike. DOT, AN, Hardware store, if its brass and its simular thickness, you should be fine. But if its made in China I wouldnt use it, even if it was DOT or AN.

[zubzub]

 if its brass and its simular thickness, you should be fine.

Wow. Do you  understand that a 4104 did not come with spring brakes, only a driveshaft brake that is only marginally effective if it is perfectly tuned?
An air line failure could drain the 4104 system quickly and leave you with no brakes.  DOT is why emergency braking systems (and many other fail-safes) exist. Why anyone would mess with that is beyond me.  Oh well, to each their own. 
If your bus runs off the road, killing someone, and anyone finds out you weren't using DOT parts...."you should be fine". 
Might lose your house/all possessions/freedom and spend the rest of your life regretting the decision that led to a loss of life, but "you should be fine".
IMNSHO brakes are the most important part of these vehicles.
Happy Busin.

[artvonne]

Wow. Do you  understand that a 4104 did not come with spring brakes, only a driveshaft brake that is only marginally effective if it is perfectly tuned?
An air line failure could drain the 4104 system quickly and leave you with no brakes.  DOT is why emergency braking systems (and many other fail-safes) exist. Why anyone would mess with that is beyond me.  Oh well, to each their own. 

    "The Department of Transportation (DOT) was established by an act of Congress, signed into law by President Lyndon B. Johnson on October 15, 1966. Its first secretary, Alan S. Boyd, took office on January 16, 1967. The department's first official day of operation was April 1, 1967.".

    The 4104 was built before the DOT even existed. Maybe we should initiate a nationwide Federal, national vehicle inspection program, whereby we examine all vehicles for DOT compliance, and force the replacement of all non DOT parts and systems found, including all vehicles built before 1967.

    So if we go out to the extreme edge in either direction, both look equally rediculous, no? If a guy cant tell if a part is equal to or of greater integrity/quality/strength than the part he's replacing, and needs to rely solely on DOT for his every move, were in a lot of trouble. And yes, I feel comfortable selecting brass fittings to match what I need, or replace with same, using common sense.

    The DOT wasnt created for any other purpose than to blow taxpayer money under the disguise of safety, and lobbied by Unions trying to force Union made parts onto the industry. In any case, and in either case, its no excuse for common sense.
 

 

[zubzub]

Whatever dude. 
My bus was built before spring brakes existed (or at least before they were standard anywhere over here) so I installed them.  I have improved/will improve other aspects of the bus's safety system.  I have a '68 volvo and have improved it's already safe for it's day systems a little where necessary.
If you can look at a brass fitting and tell whether it is well made or not, more power to you.   Personally I have other areas of expertise and in this area I prefer to have someone else (DOT)  making the call, you seem to have experience in this area so giv'er. 
BTW the OP did not seem to have your global knowledge of air fittings, so hopefully he will make the right decision based on his own areas of knowledge/ignorance.

[TedsBUSted]

Just because a component carries three stamped letters, and seems to fit, doesn't mean it's right.

An example: An original 4104 non-DOT copper compression connection uses  a long style nut which supports the copper tube to help prevent fatigue. Newer nylon tube DOT fittings use a short style nut with a sleeve inserted inside the tube. The two are dimensionally interchangeable and at assembly everything would seem fine; any possible problems would not be apparent until much later. In this example, I would much rather see an old non-DOT USA Trademarked quality long nut, over a shiny new DOT short nut

So yes, when retrofitting old stuff, I'd  have to agree that a working knowledge of fittings and their proper application is more important than relying on any ID markings.

Ted

[zubzub]

Totally agree but this has nothing to do with DOT.  They make and sell a DOT long copper comp nut.  My comments are to do with using DOT fittings, not which DOT fittings  are appropriate for different applications.  In my world, and that of the family I transport, it's always going to be safety first.  I drive old rigs, I'm taking enough of a risk, I am not interested in compounding the risk or encouraging others to do so.

[artvonne]

Whatever dude. 
My bus was built before spring brakes existed (or at least before they were standard anywhere over here) so I installed them.  I have improved/will improve other aspects of the bus's safety system.  I have a '68 volvo and have improved it's already safe for it's day systems a little where necessary.
If you can look at a brass fitting and tell whether it is well made or not, more power to you.   Personally I have other areas of expertise and in this area I prefer to have someone else (DOT)  making the call, you seem to have experience in this area so giv'er. 
BTW the OP did not seem to have your global knowledge of air fittings, so hopefully he will make the right decision based on his own areas of knowledge/ignorance.

   So by your own admission, you have completely altered the brakes and safety systems on your Bus, and your car, totally altering an engineered system, using your own experience and knowledge, yet your going to roast me over a brass fitting? Hmmmm.

[zubzub]

Whatever dude.  
My bus was built before spring brakes existed (or at least before they were standard anywhere over here) so I installed them.  I have improved/will improve other aspects of the bus's safety system.  I have a '68 volvo and have improved it's already safe for it's day systems a little where necessary.
If you can look at a brass fitting and tell whether it is well made or not, more power to you.   Personally I have other areas of expertise and in this area I prefer to have someone else (DOT)  making the call, you seem to have experience in this area so giv'er.  
BTW the OP did not seem to have your global knowledge of air fittings, so hopefully he will make the right decision based on his own areas of knowledge/ignorance.

  So by your own admission, you have completely altered the brakes and safety systems on your Bus, and your car, totally altering an engineered system, using your own experience and knowledge, yet your going to roast me over a brass fitting? Hmmmm.

Augmented not altered, the original brake and safety system are still in place.    Hyperbole anyone?