Should I repair this body damage myself?

[belfert]

On my way to Arcadia for Bussin' 11 I hit a large concrete light post base in a parking lot with the bus.  I thought I was well clear of the post so I wasn't watching in the mirror.

Anyhow, it mangled my fuel door and put a nice crease in the side of the bus.  No structural damage was done to any framing luckily.  I was able to get a replacement fuel door cheap.  The crease is about 2 1/2 feet long and about 9 inches wide.  The aluminum is pushed in maybe 1/2 inch or a little more.  The scratch in the paint makes the gouge look real narrow, but it is actually bowed in between two framing members about 9 inches apart.

Is something I should attempt to repair myself?  Some of the folks at Bussin' said I could try to push it out from the inside and then drill some holes and fill it it with structural Bondo.  Would I have issues getting the Bondo to feather out smooth and blend to the undamaged metal?  I don't care about painting it for now besides a little primer.

If I wanted to have this done by a body shop I don't know where one would even take a bus.  Coachcrafters used to be in Northfield, but they closed that location and just the Orlando location is open now.  I suppose I could contact a truck body shop.

[boxcarOkie]

Is this something I should attempt to repair myself?  I suppose I could contact a truck body shop.

It is a smart man that knows his limitations, if you are somewhat talented and can do bodywork, then I say go for it.  I am a poor welder, but thank heavens, i am pretty good with body putty, so it all evens out for me. 

Bondo is not all that hard to use, feathering can be accomplished with a pad sander or a block of wood, #320 grit moving up to #400 usually will get the job done.  If you take it to a truck shop, be careful, they will low ball you (give you a dirt cheap estimate) to get you in, keep you forever, and often, try to double the price in the end. 

Be careful, make sure there is no monkey business beforehand.  Spare you a lot of grief later on.

BCO

[Barn Owl]

Sure, try it. If it doesn't work, then send it off. What is there to loose? And if you are successful then the next time it happens..............

[Jeremy]

Assuming the panel cannot be easily replaced, some amount of filling is going to be necessary even if you get most of the dent / crease out by traditional bodywork (unless of course you know a true old-school craftsman panel-beater).

No problem at all getting filler (Bondo, as you call it) to feather-out - that's exactly what the product is designed to do. My only real concern would be whether the panel is likely to flex or vibrate, which might quickly cause the patch of filler to come unstuck and fall off. Some filler is advertised as being flexible, but it really isn't, especially if you put on anything more than a thinnest of skims. However, it may be that the panel is sturdy and well-supported, in which case it's not an issue.

Doing filler work correctly takes longer than you think, especially if you're dealing with a large flat area (in may ways, flat is much more difficult than curved). At the very least you need a long board and a good straight edge, and if it were me I'd be spraying on light 'guide coats' of paint to help with the sanding process.


Jeremy

[robertglines1]

might be easier to just put new skin on.  Rivets? if so drill out and replace skin and paint.

[Oonrahnjay]

Brian, one thing that is hard to get right on a repair on aluminum is sealing.  Bondo and primer are porous (or can be, if not done right).  You'll want to get the aluminum sheet prepared right -- get the paint off of it 100% in the area where you want the bondo to adhere; also get a perfect matte finish on the aluminum.  If there's any excess corrosion on the surface, you may want to use a chemical wash to get it 100% clean and raise that grain for the bondo to adhere to.  When you're readying the bondo, get it prepared right.  Use exactly the right amount of hardener and get the hardener mixed with the putty thoroughly.  Start with a very thin layer and make sure it's perfectly worked into the surface of the aluminum.  If it's still low in spots, build up up layers.  Work if gently to get it flat and smooth and be sure that you don't stress or crack the edges of the bondo away from the aluminum.  And the longer the sanding block that you can get, the better.  Once you have the bondo perfect, you're going to want to get it sealed.  There probably are non-porous primers now but many are not.  Be sure that you get a waterproof one.  Same deal, thin coats, and work it down smoothly until you have a perfect even coat that seals the bondo surface and the edges where it ends and seals against the aluminum.  You might even consider a coat of "throw-away" paint (paint you're planning to take off in the future) to make an effective outside seal.

But you got one thing in your favor here.  If there's any way for moisture and oxygen to get to the metal surface, you're a lot better with aluminum than with steel.

One thing you could do is get all the prep work done and ask a painter to do the final coat including the color matching.  But you're probably going to get the line that you don't have it prepared right and he'll want you to pay him to redo it.  That's probably a good time to say "thank you" and leave (if you're sure you have a good job).

Good luck.

[buswarrior]

This job can be done at home.

Get a bodyman to come to you for a cash price, you don't need to take it to a shop and pay for the overhead. Gotta be someone nearby in the business, ask the neighbours who has a relation...

Lots of guys will fix that in a matter of minutes, not hours, with the rest of the time waiting for the stuff to dry.

Maybe a little pulling, maybe just filler, either way, it will vanish under the paint.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[gus]

Since it is Al you will probably not find a body shop willing to do it since they work mostly with steel and plastic.

The main problem with this type of damage is metal stretching. Steel is relatively easy to heat/cool shrink back to size but I'm not sure Al can be done because it is very delicate to heat and shrink.

I agree that a new panel is probably the way to go since panels are not that expensive, but you have nothing to lose by trying to hammer it back yourself except your time.

I don't recommend pushing it back out, this will probably just stretch it more which will cause the dreaded ripple effect.

I'm not sure bondo will stick to Al because it moves so much with heat/cold, but I don't know that for sure. I know it will work on small areas but don't know about such a long one.

[belfert]

A friend of mine knows someone who does body work on the side so I could probably get him to do it.  I'm not worried about matching the paint as the bus needs to be painted eventually.

The aluminum skin is bonded to the frame.  No fasteners so it would be difficult, but not impossible to replace the skin.

[Busted Knuckle]

Brian,
Have your friends friend look at it and give you an idea of what he thinks and a price. Tell him you'll be happy to buy materials up front but want to see it done before paying labor. He should be willing to jump on it and do a fair job knowing you'll be looking it over before paying.
Also might check w/JD Craig, Brian D, Fred, Paul, or some of the other nuts in your area that may know someone too!
  BK 

[chev49]

Oonrahnjay  for my money is correct. If I were refinishing the panel, and not r&r, I would probably strip an area much larger than the crease, and hammer and dolly it out (shrinking as necessary) and either check for high spots with a body file or my large DA sander.  That would get me pretty close to original, but who knows since the attaching structure may be bent in a tad as well. For filling the dent, go to the automotive paint store and buy the high price stuff. For normal cars i use stuff like the newer rage filler or its equivelant. I think you will find that you will have to feather it out way more than you think the dent is if you want it to be correct. Remember that this is aluminum and it has to be cleaned and sealed correctly with something like an epoxy primer.   Also, aluminum is soft, so dont grind the thing to pieces with 24 grit or something like that, 80 to 120 or so should be fine for starting off, especially if your panel is close. If you take a piece of outter skin or cover down to the automotive paint store, they all can match them extremely close with the new equipment that they all use today. And if i were refinishing it, I would use a blending hardner when i was painting it. Just my two cents....

[RJ]

Brian -

In my neck of the woods, there are a couple of guys running around known as "Dent Doctor" and "Dent Magic."  They specialize in paintless dent repair.

I had Dr come out and repair a dent on the hood of an Acura Legend I owned.  It was in a bad location - right on top of one of the hoods cross braces.  I was amazed - after he was finished, I couldn't see the dent at all anymore - and it had been very obvious beforehand.  The $75 bucks he charged was a whole lot better than the $300+ it would have cost me at a body shop.

So, for the time being, you might try this approach until you're ready to repaint the entire coach.

I looked online in the Minneapolis phone book, looks like there's several places that do this type of work - called "paintless dent repair" in the industry.  Finishing Touch Car Care in St Paul apparently is one outfit, 651-323-2081 is their number.  When you call, ask if they "come to you" to do the work, or if you have to bring it to them.  Staying home is better, IMHO.

Anyway, another option for you!

FWIW & HTH. . .

[bevans6]

The "dent doctor" guys depend on the heat-treated springiness of modern car body steel to work their magic.  The dents just want to come back to their original shape, and the modern paint is flexible enough to stay on.  As long as you relax the crease, it's permanent.

aluminium is a different story.  It's a very dead metal, not springy.  That makes it easy to hammer form, but it does work harden.  If you have access to get a hammer to the rear of the crease you can hammer-form it out.  the problem is it will also stretch, which needs shrinking, which is a harder trick.  I would hammer and dolly it out almost smooth, get it down to bare metal, etch it with sulphuric acid, put an etch primer on it, and bondo it.  You may need to spot anneal the crease itself, some forms of aluminium do work harden quite easily.  Bare metal, oxy acetylene torch with very low pressures and a soft flame, put soot (pure acetylene flame) all over the part you want to anneal, then heat the metal very carefully and slowly just until the soot disappears.  Old fabricators trick.

Brian

[TomC]

Last summer, coming into a small gas station, I cut to sharp and ran into a concrete barrier on the right side slicing the panel below the floor line all the way through.  Luckily, the panel was the only thing damaged.  The panel is 57" x 23" and had 92 rivets holding it on!  The under supports were also bent.  I pulled out what I could, and then just used composite shims on the others.  Had a new panel made at a sheet metal shop and only used 39 big sheet metal screws to attach it (look at a Thomas Bus sometime-they only use screws).  Used aluminum/galvanized primer rolled on by hand.  Then sprayed a thick primer on and sanded back down to a nice smoothness.  Used Imron 5000 (had to get the color custom made) and sprayed myself.  Total cost- about $420.00.  Looks like new.  Good Luck, TomC

[belfert]

It sounds like I probably should find a professional to look at this job.  I did talk to JD at C&J Bus Repair once about body work a few users ago.  He sent me to a guy that lives way out in boonies.  I wasn't impressed with all with the junk laying everywhere.  I'm not sure you could even get to the overhead door with all the junk.

There is no reason this need to be fixed right away as it isn't leaking water or anything.